FDX-Fruitful Week?
 

It sounds like things progressed well this week. I'm glad for it and confident in the negotiating committee to get a final deal done shortly. This has been a long process and lots of tough feelings on both sides. I'm bullish on the future here and we have a lot of talent here throughout the company. I remain optimistic. Have a good weekend and fly safe.
WM

I think we are close. If everyone can keep their wits about them and not do anything stupid, we'll be all set. Let's not be our own worst enemy. Read the latest Chairman's message and let the legal process work. It will be detrimental to all of us if one guy gets off in the weeds.

While I appreciate the NC all their hard work and look forward to a TA, I'll say the scars of the last year of CRS shenanigans are still red and raw. I'll definitely be reading sec 25 and all language regarding trip revisions, base replacement, substitution, etc with a skeptical and detailed eye. There is no loophole or loose language the company won't exploit.

I absolutely agree with this. Also, the pay raise must be very significant, no concessions at all, and language whereby scheduling can abuse us must be fixed.

I have a long memory, and the company has done significant harm to the pilot's goodwill. It may be too late to get that back even after the contract. I think the company grossly misplayed their hand to their detriment for a long time to come.

The company should look to the Delta pilot's rejection of their TA and make sure it doesn't happen here. I'm essentially a no vote when handed the TA and have to be convinced that it's worthy of a yes. I'm that disgusted with their tactics this go around.

I think any goodwill is gone forever barring a complete change in management culture. I will fly iaw the contract and to the best of my ability I will hold the company to the contract. Nothing more, nothing less. If in the future a more friendly culture should develop, I would welcome it. As for now, I don't see it happening.

While the union says it has been a fruitful week, we still don't have a deal, and now we are down to the difficult sections. They are stringing us along, hoping to get through peak. Remember, it takes time for a 30 day cooling off period and a strike vote. What if the company plans to start the clock on November 25th? At that point, we have lost our leverage, as no one will care if we have a work action after peak. We are being played, again, like always.

I also agree that pilot good will has been damaged for a long time.

The revision of trips without the option of substitution must be addressed in the TA or I will vote no. If they revise your trip, you should be able to turn it down if you don't like the new trip. Anything less is an abrogation of seniority, which ALPA is supposed to protect at all costs. (It's the right thing to do.)

Of course, if you want to fly the revised trip, that should also be your option, but at draft pay.

Otherwise, I will vote no.

I will call my block rep and tell him so.

I would say chugging along instead of fruitful or delaying. Or maybe, the company is finally negotiating in good faith since they have adult supervision(mediator) and need a lot of guys to do draft and protect carryover. Sec 25 is huge and a big one to TA. We want loose language and loopholes closed and we want it fast. I think the 2 are almost mutually exclusive goals. But it's done. Retirement is still out there and why I'm still preparing for all possible outcomes of mediation.

Judging by the other letter from the Chairman, it would appear the company is deeply concerned about service failures and has even accused the LEC 26 of fostering an environment where pilots are discouraged to pick up any extra flying.

Maybe the Union meant "fruitcake" week?


:confused:

"we still don't have a deal, and now we are down to the difficult sections. They are stringing us along, hoping to get through peak. Remember, it takes time for a 30 day cooling off period and a strike vote. What if the company plans to start the clock on November 25th? At that point, we have lost our leverage, as no one will care if we have a work action after peak. We are being played, again, like always." from nightflyer

So we need to control the clock 45 days till oct 1 Every day that goes by we get weaker

I'd be very surprised to see sec 25 improvements that are more than token. IMHO, the company would rather win our love with a few extra beans than agree to things that can't be "interpreted" as they see fit. :eek: As such, conditional language, seen by us as a no cost fix, is a big deal to management. Its part of the control thing.... :mad:

We're only down to pay, insurance and retirement.

$, $, and $.

The contract language is very important, but as long as we're short staffed things will always get ugly with any contract or management team as you will push up against the boundaries constantly compared to other times.

You are 1/2 right. Now that schedulers/mgmt has stayed awake trying to find ways to solve the short staffing via holes in the contract, do not think that these techniques will "magically" evaporate when we get a new contract. These techniques by schedulers will certainly be remembered and they are the new normal. To think different is naive and short sighted.

As several other posters have accurately commented, management has boxed themselves into a corner (virtually no hiring in 7 yrs while easily 550 have retired, 767 simulators have been bungled, FAA 757/767 rulings have not gone in mgmts favor, labor relations have been deeply damaged). Mgmt has hatched an ugly duckling that will take years to turn into a pretty swan (assuming mgmt did everything right between now and then).

Yep like accepted fares we will have to buy our schedules back in the next contract. Until then stay senior and avoid Memphis.

This. Being senior is good, avoiding the planet is better, getting bumped for training is best.

Why should we wait until the next contract to buy our schedules back?

Can't we tell them to fix it in this contract or no deal?

I'd rather not get bent over for another 7 years.

Fix it now!

So very true...
 

THIS. THIS. THIS. I struggled on the last MOAB with the upgrading decision and could hold Capt in all seats and domiciles except MEM777 CA (which I only missed by double digits). One thing that kept me back was the seniority that I enjoy that allows me to avoid the planet, bid carry-over and conflict it to protect days off, and dh'ing where possible and practical.

These new found scheduling tools will be the new normal for quite some time because there isn't a schoolhouse program currently in MEM that can churn out freshly trained operators -- and in the programs that can flush guys out (757, et al) there is then a backlog for IOE. It's not going to get better overnight and I expect arse-pain system-wide for the next year, maybe two, REGARDLESS of a ratified contract.

I really wanted to upgrade but am now glad that I kept my powder dry.

I am with you, I'll vote no. Now all we need is another 2000 votes are so.

1999 or so........

My first thought when I saw sec 25 had been ta'd was "crap". Mainly because the changes I now want have been brought on by the last year of abuse, and the changes I want would have been fought tooth and nail by management. The fact it was ta'd in the middle of a scheduling meltdown makes me extra cynical. I'm just one voter, but this section is now my hill to die on, and I'll be reading it closely.

$320 an hour. Day 1 of Signing.

And that's just for the FO's

Oh, never mind, turns out the new CRS definition of an hour is a flight leg

But, 75 guys with the 1 hour block trips make out like bandits, 777 guys-not so much

This is true for almost everyone!
 

........+1

I wonder if ALPA or Management can use this strategy for their next negotiating summary?

Turning cow poo into power is profitable for US farm


:confused:

So a TA is finally produced. There is a two week road show to explain it to the troops. Three or four weeks of voting. It gets turned down. Now it goes back for more negotiating (so management can get a 51% approval vote). In history, how many times has a TA been voted down twice in a row? Is it possible that all this time consumption allows management to slide right on through another peak? They're not as dumb as they appear. And they DO appear dumb.

I believe we turned down 2 TA's in a row. ALPA 1 in 1995 and again with FPA in 1997. It only took the Union (both ALPA and FPA) imploding twice and a couple of MEC Chair and FPA President & Negotiation Committee resignations and a recall or 2 and we finally got a Management sided contract shoved down out throats.

This implies that the first TA will always be the best TA? I don't think that has to hold. If the TA isn't satisfactory, I would think individual pilots would be very, very unhappy being fed a piece of crap TA and peak would be beyond difficult.

I think it's best for the company to negotiate a great TA for us. We deserve it and we know it. Pilots are very unhappy individually now, and the company would be foolish to put forward TA language that would pass 51%. The other 49% in that case would still be unhappy and peak couldn't run with that level of dissatisfaction.

I'm ready for cooling off and a strike vote ASAP if we don't have a great TA in a couple of weeks.

It's past time.

I think it's time for a strike vote now, before a cooling off. I don't think the RLA prevents us from taking a vote. Tony?

Strike votes aren't taken while the process is progressing.

In the past it was very common for ALPA to take a strike vote right before going into Section 6 negotiations. Not sure when that changed but it seems like new standard is to take strike vote during the cooling off period.

We don't need to strike.

That would play into the hands of the company, who will go to the press and the rest of the employees about how "greedy" we are being by striking.

The news will always spin it in their favor, you can count on it.

If it comes to a cooling off period, all it will take is for us to work to the rule and for everyone to fly their line and nothing more. We are so undermanned, or manned in the wrong places, that a strike is not necessary and would not be to our benefit.

I was told today by an "ask me" guy that the "rumor" is the company lawyers are worried that whatever TA they negotiate, it will not be good enough and we will vote it down.

I hope the company is finally getting smart enough to give us the deal we have repeatedly earned.

If not, I am not afraid to vote no, and if we vote the TA down, than so be it.

I will never vote for a TA that splits the retirement into two groups.

I will never vote for a TA that does not give everyone the 25K that the select few got in 2006.

Everyday the company stalls, increases my expectations as to the quality of the TA that will be required to earn my yes vote.

When will the company realize that they have pushed us too far?

Soon, I hope. It is way, way past time.

What's the definition of "progressing"? And who defines it?

sec 25 and 11 TA'd in a week. The mediator

Your right, WE all need to do the right thing, and not have anyone, union, friend, or college, tell us. The union can't and your "friends" could get in trouble for doing so too. :eek: This is not rocket science......

He said Strike Vote. Not a Strike. A Strike Vote is far from actually striking. First, the parties have to be released. A Strike vote is good to get the company and Wall Street's attention.

++1

If you are relatively new here (less than 20 years, from my prospective) you need to listen to the stories from the old hands. Red letters, non flight employees protests, a direct message from the top, threats of out sourcing, all happened, long ago; all could happen again.

A strike vote does not mean that you will actually withhold all services. It allows you to define certain work as struck work, like working on your off days for draft. At least that is how I understood it when explained to me years back.

Legally we are allowed no variance from normal until a strike is ordered after a 30 day cooling off period.

A strike vote can be taken at any time. We don't need approval from anyone for ALPA to take the vote. The results of such a vote will be a closely held secret and not released to the public until such time we need some leverage. That's assuming of course that the vote is strongly in favor of striking. It could turn out 50/50 and the union would never release those results to the public because our pilots won't support a strike. Or it could be 98/2 in favor of striking. It's all in the numbers.