Retro Pay/Signing Bonus...How much is enough?
08-23-2015, 10:05 PM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: I never did mind the little things.......
Posts: 260
LOL
Originally Posted by Strut
Chainsaw. would you like a contract where everyone got $500 an hour, but you had to go to FAR limits with no protection, no insurance, no retirement (I think I should call this deferred compensation)? In essence, you're on your own, independent contractor Think it out.
Do you want to marry a 400lb Chinese albino leper? Do you want to sit on a 16ft flagpole and not flinch?
Think it out.
Last edited by Chainsaw; 08-23-2015 at 10:07 PM. Reason: Laughing so hard I hit the wrong keys!
08-24-2015, 08:09 PM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Posts: 154
What if the Reported Signing bonus is.................
$125,000,000 for the Union to distribute as it sees fit. That would work out to about $30K per pilot if you split it down the middle. (Not sure how the split will work yet.)
$125,000,000 for the Union to distribute as it sees fit. That would work out to about $30K per pilot if you split it down the middle. (Not sure how the split will work yet.)
08-24-2015, 08:19 PM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,756
Originally Posted by Patches
What if the Reported Signing bonus is.................
$125,000,000 for the Union to distribute as it sees fit. That would work out to about $30K per pilot if you split it down the middle. (Not sure how the split will work yet.)
$125,000,000 for the Union to distribute as it sees fit. That would work out to about $30K per pilot if you split it down the middle. (Not sure how the split will work yet.)
08-24-2015, 08:50 PM
#28
Contract 2021
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: 777 - Both
Posts: 438
Originally Posted by Raptor
It all is speculation until the crew bus driver gives us the scoop.
But, if first year is 9-11%, I don't need to read any further--NO!
I don't want a 6 year "interim" contract rate. We're already at our third year so "missing" two 3% raises and then getting another 3-4% essentially on signing is not remotely close to acceptable. Delta's TA that was voted down was better than these numbers. We deserve industry leading, and not just for 6 months until we are leapfrogged.
If these low ball rumors are true, I hope the MEC does their job and sends it back to the negotiators. I'm not afraid of the what-if when that happens. Leverage is great right now, and peak would be beyond ugly for the company.
But, if first year is 9-11%, I don't need to read any further--NO!
I don't want a 6 year "interim" contract rate. We're already at our third year so "missing" two 3% raises and then getting another 3-4% essentially on signing is not remotely close to acceptable. Delta's TA that was voted down was better than these numbers. We deserve industry leading, and not just for 6 months until we are leapfrogged.
If these low ball rumors are true, I hope the MEC does their job and sends it back to the negotiators. I'm not afraid of the what-if when that happens. Leverage is great right now, and peak would be beyond ugly for the company.
Assuming that we all look at the "big picture" on this TA and take the entirety of the gains/loses into perspective, picking one item such as pay rates as a benchmark seems reasonable. If you take that approach, keep in mind the time value of an immediate raise (on date of signing). In other words if your value of say of 9-11% is not enough, what would be? Assuming the pay rates don't hit your first year target, do you look at the remaining rate increases over the duration? (I'm sure most would).
So the follow on is what if they don't hit your target assuming your looking at the total pay increase over the duration of the contract? I don't care what that number is...lets just say it's a 24% increase over 6 years.
Lets also assume the TA gets voted down. The question now is how long before we get another one and how much potential earnings have been lost while we waited. What about retro then? I think that becomes a diminishing rate as time drags on as well. The number I have heard from the Union is we are losing 1 Million per week at current rates. Throw in the improved rates and time value of money and that number gets big...quick!
History has not been kind to our brothers and sisters that have failed to ratify "industry leading" contracts. American, USAir, (AirTran/SWA merger) and now Delta assuming they have a drawn out negotiation ahead of them.
So lets say it missed your personal minimum by 3% over the life of the contract, or even worse your first year signing number. Your number is 27% and we get 24%...no deal, right? I don't think smart money or Kramer would advise you to flush that one down the toilette.
Here's Why:
Quick non-compounded math gets you to $323/hour for the 24%, and at 27% you're at $330/hour. Figured at 83 hours per month the delta is $581/month at the end of the contract. Giving the benefit of the doubt and the Company ponies up more dinero, I think it's anyones best guess at how long it is before we can actually capture those higher rates. Lets just assume two more years. You have just given up more than $40,000 for the first two years of the contract directly from pay alone.
Compound it if you like over your career and you'll quickly find out one simple truth: DONT PUT YOUR MAD BEFORE YOUR MONEY!!!
I realize it's simplified due to non-compounding, but you get the drift. The reality is you can't discount what a delay would cost and the risk involved is off the chart. To each his own, when it comes to the decision ahead, but my gut instinct says that Fred won't just roll over if this thing gets flushed. Hope you have your financials in order.
08-24-2015, 08:50 PM
#29
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Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: Bus driver
Posts: 322
30k doesn't cover the back pay they owe me. FedEx withheld my pay, I'd like THEM to pay me what I'm owed. They created the mess, let them fix it!!! Just one of the items THEY will fix when we go back to negotiationing table.
08-24-2015, 11:33 PM
#30
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Joined APC: May 2015
Posts: 299
Originally Posted by busdriver12
As this is all just speculation, I think it would be fair if it was based upon a combination of seat position and longevity. A signing bonus (ie retro pay) shouldn't be the same for someone who has been here for 25 days, as opposed to 25 years.
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