6 week bid periods
 

Since this was a company "ask", I'm obviously skeptical. I'm making an attempt to see this from all angles and find the potential pitfalls. Obviously vacation is a big concern - How big is still pending, IMO. Bigger playing field on which to hit the same target with your 5-day slide for one. Since the vacation for next year will be complete before this might be ratified, that playing field would most likely move from what was expected during the bid.

Days off gets affected by this as well. Right now a reserve pilot gets a minimum of 168 days off per year. All but two 6 week BP combinations drops that number by one to three days.

Paychecks will probably get even harder to figure out than they are already.

One LEC rep is of the opinion that 6-week BPs will be good for week on/week off patterns. According to him, as it stands now, with a 4-week and 5-week month back to back, there are situations where a pilot must work two of those weeks in a row. A 6-week bid period would alleviate this (good, I guess if you work wo/wo). He also seems to think that there will be just two of these 6 week periods per year (one sometime in the spring and one prior to peak). If that's the case, then we would have to have ten 4-week BPs and no 5-week BPs to keep 12 BPs per year. Otherwise we get 11 or 10 total (with the other combinations using two 6-week BPs).

Personally, I remain skeptical. If this is an exploitable option without clear boundaries - the company will do so to the max extent possible.

I did some quick :rolleyes: (for me) math and found out there are 15 possible combinations of 4, 5 and 6 week bid periods that fit into a calendar year. If you consider that sometimes the last bid period may encroach on January of the new year, there may be a couple more iterations - not sure.

My point is this: There is nothing in our existing contract or the TA that specifically states we have to have 12 bid periods per year called "Jan, Feb, Mar, etc". They could decide to call them bid period 1 through 9, since eight 6-week and one 4-week make a round 52 weeks. Maybe they have the last one go 2-weeks into January or some other kung-fu we haven't thought of.

I'm not sure how big an issue this is yet but I think it needs to be looked at. I simply throw these numbers and some initial concerns out for everyone to think about.

Here are the 15 possible combinations I came up with: Sorry for the formatting.

4w-5w-6w-Ttl periods-Annual days off
8 4 0 12 168
3 8 0 11 167
9 2 1 12 168
4 6 1 11 167
10 0 2 12 168
5 4 2 11 167
0 8 2 10 166
6 2 3 11 167
1 6 3 10 166
7 0 4 11 167
2 4 4 10 166
3 2 5 10 166
4 0 6 10 166
0 2 7 9 165
1 0 8 9 165

Since BLG is tied to monthly pay checks on the 15th and the end of the month, I personally do not see how they can pay you half your BLG every 15th of the month unless they have 12 bid months.

If they have to stick with 12, then it definitely limits them to zero, one or two 6-week BPs per year.

The TA still requires payment on the 15th and last day of the month and is pretty specific on what is in each paycheck. Maybe that will limit the possibilities but I just thought it was worth thinking about.

Hopefully it doesn't create big (or any) major issues.

Are you kidding? The company will just come and ask for a side letter to change how we are paid and the union will say sure if we can get an extra Scooby snack each week! 😡

How about a 23-day trip on the 777 or the 767 in Asian theater? With the associated concessions on DH's. Anything to stop the company from doing that in a 6 week bid period? We might build the lines, but the company builds the pairings.

No language on how many 6 week bid periods in one year. And the big thing to be aware of is that the company asked for this. There is a plan behind it, and without any language to limit the company, we won't fully understand the implications until it's too late.

Actually, there is. TA restricts single trips in the 6 week BP to be no longer than 390 hours TAFB (~16 days). That's the same restriction as trips in the 5 week period.

Bottom line there is there just won't be any single departure lines in the 6 week BP, which is probably a good thing generally speaking. There will just be another week long trip somewhere in the BP to go with your two-weeker to round things out.

Thanks, just because I overheard 23-day trips discussed in anger during the hub turn, doesn't excuse me not reading before posting.

My understanding is the SIG wanted this not the company! Prevents back to back weeks of work. It was in the 99 contract and never used.

Reserve is a max of 15 days for a 4 week bid period. A 6 week bid period is 50% longer and 50% more reserve equates to 22.5 max days, yet the TA puts the 6-week max rounded up to 23 days.

This equates to a little more than 2% extra work per 6-week bid period. Combine with less off days per the OP and you start getting hidden creep to how hard and much we work--at a COLA level of increased compensation.

But if we use you logic and a 6 week period is used vice 2 5 week periods we work less.

Care to guess the savings the company will reap by going to 11 bid periods in a year?

Many pilot overrides tied to the bid period, instructor and LCA. One less time the SIG needs to meet also. How many trips does the company eat for the week of the build?

But, that would require the company to make it work that way. It's their option.

I'm trying to think of the last time the company or CRS made an interpretation or used a mechanic in the contract that benefitted me?

It seems like the company got a LOT of little things here and there fixed in their favor. It just feels like to me that they got more things fixed than we did. A lot of little things adds up as a win for them and a concession from us. This contract shouldn't have been about concessions from us and COLA raises.

I would have preferred more 3% contract extensions over this TA.

We are all getting worked up and we don't have answers. If the company can have less than 12 bids yes 6 weeks is a bad deal. If they are still required to have 12 bids, 6 weeks has many positives.

We can't get them to pay us what we earn- think of how many times you had to do a pay log to get what was yours! How in the world are they going to calculate pay twice a month with this?

No trust.

There is nothing in writing saying they have to have 12 bid periods - so tell me - do you honestly believe they won't use this to their advantage?

So, FDXLAG, can you find for us in the contract where it says the company MUST have 12 bids per year?

If it does not say that, in lawyer proof language, they won't do it!!!

When the first contract passed, back in 98, I asked a manager the day before if the company was going to do away with the negative airman list, as was rumored by the "no" guys.

He said, the contract is silent on that, so he didn't see why the company wouldn't keep it.

The next day, the contract passed, and the negative airman list was gone!

So, the moral of the story is, if it is not in lawyer proof black and white language, the company will do what they please, to their benefit, not ours.

I don't know that is why I asked the question and am waiting for the answer. I do know they have to pay me half my BLG every 15th of the month. If we take my 80 hours a month average over 12 bid periods and they drop it to 10 bid periods that means instead of every 15th me getting 40 hours now every 15th I would get 50 hours.:D

Not sure what else I can say, if there is no 12 bid month guarantee this is enough for me to vote no, if there is I personally like 6 week bid months. In the past when going from a 5 week to a 4 week or vice versa I have had to work 3 weeks straight. This would help fix that.

According to ALPA Q&A webpage, it sounds like we may have asked for the 6 week.
A. 6 week bid periods are used to build less fatiguing schedules. They give the PSIT the ability to build week on- week off flying versus the back to back weeks of night hub turns in a 5 week bid period.

And then the company will say "build the lines to XXX blg" and we will be doing back to back weeks again! Sounds like a great plan to me - NOT!

Because I saw it mentioned earlier as a bad side effect of 6 week bid periods...the new allowable expense for parking is $375 per quarter. That's a net increase of $300 per year but the "by quarter" system is an approvement over the "by bid period" system.

LAG, you seem to have turned over a new leaf. I saw you as a person who was usually skeptical about things that werent cut and dry/black or white. Now you seem to be the opposite, giving the benefit of doubt to the Company when history proves that if interpretation of the contract can be used by them to put the screws to us, they will.

What has happened?

Nope, right now as read I am probably a no on this contract. Would you agree that under the logic of some of the posters here the company could have 8 five week months and 3 four weeks months? Why haven't they?
I like 2 six week bid months instead of 4 five week bid months.
I like the 76 having 36 hours off in Campinas.
The retirement we did to ourselves.
I like the bonus cash split, much fairer than 2006.
I like the 4A2b paragraph.

Voting no will probably get us the same contract in a year with maybe a couple of percent more, and possibly a fix to retirement now that the clue bird has crapped on how big a hammer Fred has with the 260k cap.

All that said I will listen to the NC explain why they think this is the best we can get.

The TA also says max TAFB for trips in 6 week bid period is 470, which equates to a 19.58 day trip. Ouch!

From the ALPA Q&A

Q: Are my international trips going to get longer because of the new 6 week bid periods?
A: Your single departure trips will not be longer since we maintained the current 5 week bid period maximum limit for a trip at 390 TAFB

OK. Just dont want you to start drinking the koolaide! ;)

Where does it say that in the TA?

page 353.

Regular lines shall be constructed with a maximum of 313 hours TAFB
in a 4-week bid period, and 390 hours TAFB in a 5-week bid period, and
470 hours TAFB in a 6-week bid period. A single trip in a 6-week bid
period shall not exceed 390 TAFB. Regular lines will only be
constructed with a maximum of 15 work days in a 4-week bid period and,
19 work days in a 5-week bid period, and 23 work days in a 6-week bid
period.

Ah, found it. Thanks. At least they can't send us on a deployment.

[deleted ......

25.D.1.b limits single trips to 390 TAFB. A line could have a total of 470 TAFB between all trips on the line.

And then there's this to look forward to:

http://i.imgur.com/Lw3wpgY.jpg

What's 260,000 in 2006 dollars worth in 2022 ??

Exactly why I sent bat-**** crazy about the first FDA with 90 day involuntary STVs.

Sometimes, we are just 12 Angry men making noise. Sometimes, there is some good info here. Hopefully we can all separate the wheat from the chaff.

The only $260,000 number I know of was set in 1998 not 2006. It is now over $380,000 not $307,000 in 2015.

CPI Inflation Calculator

Then it's even better now !
Wait a sec....

Then you can have it!!!! 36 hours off IS NOT worth head bobbing in the jumpseat of the 76 or spread across the seats with your feet in the ****ter, trying to sleep as the two at the controls carry a normal pass the time conversation...or WORSE STEP OVER you as you're curled up on the cockpit floor...the same cockpit floor where people were stepping in and out of the lav onto....

Yah...36 hours off makes THAT shtsandwich sooooo much better...Fool....

Bottom line, our cheap company tried to save money when ordering the 76, now WE have to pay for it, in that POS plane....

Rat,

Get this through your brain. They can do it now without the 36 hours off. A dedicated rest area is not required for block under 12. Nothing in our contract prevents this. The 36 hours off is a plus. It may even provide incentive for FDX to get the Feds to approve Boeings captain in a can concept. Do you have any further questions on this subject?
The 76 is not going anywhere it will be the dominate fedex WB. That is not my fault it is life.