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Do you want to see a NO vote?

Old 09-06-2015, 01:43 PM
  #21  
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You didn't answer the question...
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Old 09-06-2015, 01:45 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by CloudSailor View Post
Come on LAG, you're out of here in 6 years. I get it, I'd view this the same way as you, no shame in it man. We will all make the decision that is best for ourselves, and nobody else.

What matters though, in what might be a very close vote, is to help educate those who will not research this TA on their own - those who believe roadshows will provide all the answers.
There are a lot of us who have only 7 or 8 years left. My no vote will require some convincing that half of it wont be spent not selling vacation and watching others fly draft trips I turned down. The videos so far make a compelling case that this is the best we are going to get for a long while. Show me why they are wrong.
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Old 09-06-2015, 01:49 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by BoilerUP View Post
You didn't answer the question...
I am for negotiating, which will hopefully get them a lot more than 130k in 30 years. And me more than 130k in 6 years. You have a problem with that?

Last edited by FDXLAG; 09-06-2015 at 02:02 PM.
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Old 09-06-2015, 02:03 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by FDXLAG View Post
There are a lot of us who have only 7 or 8 years left. My no vote will require some convincing that half of it wont be spent not selling vacation and watching others fly draft trips I turned down. The videos so far make a compelling case that this is the best we are going to get for a long while. Show me why they are wrong.
Yeah, to be clear, I would be feeling the yes vote only if I had 3-4 years or less left on property. I get that those guys are 'in the bag' for the company.

For you and others in the 5-10 years left on property, I obviously cannot show you a guaranteed timeline of events after voting this TA down, but I can remind you of the FDA LOA "this is the best we can ever expect to get", which turned out to be completely false (not a lie, but a very misguided opinion of the NC, who 'believed' they got everything they could). So, it is not that I don't believe our NC, it is that they 'believe' they got all they could, and their belief fell way too short of what I also 'believe' we could have gotten in this environment, just like the Delta pilots. It comes down to their belief in our worth. Delta pilots disagreed with their NC, and those of us voting NO, disagree with our NC. No loss of respect for their efforts.

I guess it comes down to, do you feel this TA falls way short of the value we provide the company? Me, yes. Are you willing to go back to the table for what you have earned, and to live under a truly leading contract for the next 10 years? Me, yes.
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Old 09-06-2015, 02:16 PM
  #25  
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Actually I think this TA makes us some of the best compensated pilots in the industry when you throw in current value A Plan, Compensation, 9% B Fund, min pay per duty period, and health care. My complaints with this TA or in the work rule areas of scheduling, but we should have fixed those when we gave up Cologne.
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Old 09-06-2015, 02:21 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by pipe View Post
I'm stealing this from GetRealDude in another thread - but I think it makes a great "talking point" sheet from which to start. Print it, carry it, pass it around, hang it in the bathroom stalls, post it with the crashpad ads, etc.

Please educate yourself. If this is passed, we'll have to live with it for the next 6-10years. That's a long time to get beat up (QOL) with no recourse.

BIG ISSUES:
- no increase in A Plan High 5 (degradation in benefits year after year)
- pathetic B Plan bumps (1% DOS the wait four years for added 1%)
- no cash over cap provision for B fund + 401k limits (big issue here)
- hourly rates insultingly too low (Minimum $300/CH WB Capt DOS)
- annual increases to pay also too low (should be 4, 4, 4, 4, 4 annually)
- retro payout is pathetic based on delays (RUFKM?)
- healthcare premium increase (significant and change annually)

- 6 week bid months (might be good for the SIG but a HUGE problem) - see TonyC breakdown on page 10 of this thread)
- vacation negatively affected by 6-week bid periods
- CRS no real time trip trading improvements
- CRS can still move R days w/o approval (but you get a 3 CH bump)
- CRS can still extend you in the field w/o approval
- CRS can throw you on a Company J/S practically at will
- CRS manipulation of open time with ghost ASBY/HSBY not fixed
- Higher % of bidpack will be VTO (this is mini-PBS)
- no resolution to our sick leave doctors note BS harassment grievance

- the loss of hotel room on a 4 hour hub turn
- no increase in vacation and sick leave credit per day
- no increase to the base housing allowance for the FDAs
- the Dash 8 400 deal in EUR is BS
- loss of first class DH when lie flat business class is available
- 767 Company DH (Jumpseat to Europe - say it ain't so)
- 18 hour deviation check-in reqmt (intercontinental)
- Pilot pays for each deviation booking fee up to $25 each time (BS)
- loss of hotel in lieu of DH (bad deal here)
- scope concerns (6 week bid period clause, TNT deal)
- POP is gone with bidding for ITU.
+1 and more. Keep talking to guys when you fly with them and ask them what they thinkg
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Old 09-06-2015, 02:25 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by The Walrus View Post
Nothing changed on the js issue. It is only an incorporation of a grievance letter from 2008 that is currently in the contract.

That's what they say, but I have a bad feeling about it. The "Business Necessity" verbiage change. Why? When will it NOT be a Business Necessity for the company to save the $ of a DH ticket and JS you home? What's the penalty if they do? Money? Nope. A letter to the SIG. Wow. Big deal.

The "Fly Window" is right smack dab in about 95% of the layover to DH window now. 12 to 36 hours after you finish the trip. The procedures apply for any extra trip and or REVISION. How often does that happen? And last, it says that once they take a first, and only look at a commercial DH, they don't have to look again. They can solely look to JS you home (8.A.3.e.i.d).

They even have provisions for Second Officers! That one just made me laugh.
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Old 09-06-2015, 02:30 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by BlackKnight View Post
...

They even have provisions for Second Officers!
That one just made me laugh.
Again: Another indication that the entire CBA was not properly vetted for inconsistencies!

Minor little things like this are what have bitten us in the a$$ too many times!
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Old 09-06-2015, 02:30 PM
  #29  
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BK, all I am saying is that it has been in our contract for 7 years.
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Old 09-06-2015, 02:51 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by FDXLAG View Post
Actually I think this TA makes us some of the best compensated pilots in the industry when you throw in current value A Plan, Compensation, 9% B Fund, min pay per duty period, and health care. My complaints with this TA or in the work rule areas of scheduling, but we should have fixed those when we gave up Cologne.

Lets say for sake of argument that we are the best paid and will be for 5 years. That is irrelevant IMO. Why? Because we have never had a financial problem, are very profitable, and do a different kind of flying, among other things.

It boils down to the Q of what you might be willing to sacrifice if you were to vote no, knowing that we are worth more.

I have 3-4 years left, and like a few things in the TA. But those are offset by things that I dislike more. I am sure that if it is voted down, people will still fly DPs, Draft, and other things that are not helpful. But if one would vote their conscience instead of worrying to much about others and their vote or actions, we might have had a contract years ago that corrected many of the shortfalls we have now.

Just a thought.
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