No.
09-14-2015, 07:47 AM
#21
New Hire
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Posts: 5
Hey Wally, didn't you go graduate from SERE? You survived that, no? This would be the "R" part. Maybe you can revisit some of that excellent training and mentor your peers who didn't. We need to lock arms and keep the unity going. A vocal minority seem obsessed with the "what if" theories. Here are the facts you know to be true: the new contract will be tested by CA lawyers to our detriment, take several years of gnashing teeth before remedies can be concocted (or not), further whittle down our rapidly deteriorating schedules, and yet still not provide a substantial improvement in purchasing power, QOL and retirement security that you have earned. Among other things, you will lose first class in DH's for the aforementioned lie flat (NOT necessarily business class as SL sells), lose a hotel room on IND layovers to help the company pay for sleep rooms you should already have, lose hotel in lieu of DH benefits on international trips, sleep on the floor of the 767 for a 32 hour layover (and later in a can behind the smoke barrier), and ultimately lose your self-respect when the company announces dividend increases, management bonuses and record revenue in fiscal year 2017. Not to mention encouraging the independent contractors to fly sick and stick around longer. Maybe you recall the late 90's Delta concessionary contract? They were gnawing their arms off after the company snookered them and declared management bonuses. Similarly, the bonuses here will be amply paid for by efficiencies and money left on the table in this crappy contract. What do you think the legal department's MBO will be once we sign? I hope the inner circle invite you to the TNT merger signing and after-party at the Yale Club in gratitude.
To answer your question most of us probably have enjoyed our scheduled days off, used our vacation to go fly fishing or catch up on our sleep, and otherwise have done what was asked of us by ALPA, including wearing the lanyard. Sounds like we need a process for all the quivering-in-our-boots types who worry about the outcome. First, check your mental model. Start by evaluating the contract you live under. It is better than every other airline's. Why change it to pick up a few tidbits and give up perks earned in the past? Just because you (plural) don't go to the Emirates FC lounge or use hotel in lieu of DH now doesn't mean the group should throw it away out of spite or ignorance. The option to deviate and use your money is a savings to the company, even if pilots use it in ways that weren't envisioned or approved of by SL. Next, remind yourself how wonderful you are. I recommend you watch "Swingers" and get a Vince Vaughan pep talk (You're money baby! You're so money you don't even know it. Literally.) Your touted pay "increase" may be delayed by two years, but you might capture a real pay raise instead of a COLA increase, and potentially a "bonus" that is more reflective of what you gave up since 2012/13. Third, mentally prepare for more picketing and enjoying your well-earned time off on a four week bid cycle (six weeks, what?). This will show we are unified and willing to stand fast for a truly industry leading contract. It will also provide you the buzz of shared sacrifice and esprit de corps from sticking with the fellas. Fourth, apply your angst in the right direction. Right now it is directed at your "no" peers instead of this half-baked TA our NC presented. Send it back, unify and direct the angst at the company until they produce what ALPA and management told us we are worth. You haul crazy sh*t at obnoxious hours to places no one else goes. When was the last time you bragged about going to Guangzhou, Harlingen or Lafayette to some hot babe? The present NC moved the ball into field goal range. It's first and ten and they are telling us they want to kick. It's time to move to our ground game, improve our field position and run down the clock a little bit. We have people on the seniority list who can step up and do a better job at this juncture. This NC clearly has fatigue and needs a break. No need to fire anybody, just let a fresh team take the field and end the Stockholm Syndrome that is evident. When was it ALPA's job to tell us the company can't afford A plan fixes, or any other aspect of the contract? These hard-working guys (thank you!) can continue to help from the bench and bring a new team up to speed. We don't need to capitulate. This TA is Fado Parking Lot II. No more carrying water, hard sells nor fuzzy math. Just the facts. Show some intellectual honesty and present both sides. We spoke, they acknowledged, they didn't deliver. I am guessing you watched 12 O'Clock High at some point in your Academy/ROTC/OTS days. We need the Gregory Peck figure to step up and save our NC from self-loathing and mission fatigue. Why perpetuate the low self-esteem of contracts' past when the company is advertising what a financial powerhouse they are to Wall Street. Want to compare us to the pax carriers? We make up 4-5% of the cost of a flight versus costs in the mid-teens at the pax carriers. How does that translate to the bottom line? Not to mention our flights are worth far more. Compare us in all aspects, not just the convenient categories that are one or two pax carrier contracts away from being outdated. As stated in another thread, we are asking for a reasonable share of the pie and it won't cause a ripple in the sea of money that is washing up at HQ. No more cost neutral theory. Tighten your straps and put on your game face. I look forward to following you in the picket line. . .
To answer your question most of us probably have enjoyed our scheduled days off, used our vacation to go fly fishing or catch up on our sleep, and otherwise have done what was asked of us by ALPA, including wearing the lanyard. Sounds like we need a process for all the quivering-in-our-boots types who worry about the outcome. First, check your mental model. Start by evaluating the contract you live under. It is better than every other airline's. Why change it to pick up a few tidbits and give up perks earned in the past? Just because you (plural) don't go to the Emirates FC lounge or use hotel in lieu of DH now doesn't mean the group should throw it away out of spite or ignorance. The option to deviate and use your money is a savings to the company, even if pilots use it in ways that weren't envisioned or approved of by SL. Next, remind yourself how wonderful you are. I recommend you watch "Swingers" and get a Vince Vaughan pep talk (You're money baby! You're so money you don't even know it. Literally.) Your touted pay "increase" may be delayed by two years, but you might capture a real pay raise instead of a COLA increase, and potentially a "bonus" that is more reflective of what you gave up since 2012/13. Third, mentally prepare for more picketing and enjoying your well-earned time off on a four week bid cycle (six weeks, what?). This will show we are unified and willing to stand fast for a truly industry leading contract. It will also provide you the buzz of shared sacrifice and esprit de corps from sticking with the fellas. Fourth, apply your angst in the right direction. Right now it is directed at your "no" peers instead of this half-baked TA our NC presented. Send it back, unify and direct the angst at the company until they produce what ALPA and management told us we are worth. You haul crazy sh*t at obnoxious hours to places no one else goes. When was the last time you bragged about going to Guangzhou, Harlingen or Lafayette to some hot babe? The present NC moved the ball into field goal range. It's first and ten and they are telling us they want to kick. It's time to move to our ground game, improve our field position and run down the clock a little bit. We have people on the seniority list who can step up and do a better job at this juncture. This NC clearly has fatigue and needs a break. No need to fire anybody, just let a fresh team take the field and end the Stockholm Syndrome that is evident. When was it ALPA's job to tell us the company can't afford A plan fixes, or any other aspect of the contract? These hard-working guys (thank you!) can continue to help from the bench and bring a new team up to speed. We don't need to capitulate. This TA is Fado Parking Lot II. No more carrying water, hard sells nor fuzzy math. Just the facts. Show some intellectual honesty and present both sides. We spoke, they acknowledged, they didn't deliver. I am guessing you watched 12 O'Clock High at some point in your Academy/ROTC/OTS days. We need the Gregory Peck figure to step up and save our NC from self-loathing and mission fatigue. Why perpetuate the low self-esteem of contracts' past when the company is advertising what a financial powerhouse they are to Wall Street. Want to compare us to the pax carriers? We make up 4-5% of the cost of a flight versus costs in the mid-teens at the pax carriers. How does that translate to the bottom line? Not to mention our flights are worth far more. Compare us in all aspects, not just the convenient categories that are one or two pax carrier contracts away from being outdated. As stated in another thread, we are asking for a reasonable share of the pie and it won't cause a ripple in the sea of money that is washing up at HQ. No more cost neutral theory. Tighten your straps and put on your game face. I look forward to following you in the picket line. . .
Last edited by Encanto; 09-14-2015 at 08:29 AM.
09-14-2015, 01:09 PM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: 757 Capt
Posts: 107
Well said Encanto. It is just getting the word out to the rest of the crewforce that worries me. The union is on a sales blitz and they are happily spending our money to produce videos, host meeting, send emails all clearly aimed at selling this thing like it is the greatest thing since sliced bread. I'm really glad the dissenting voters and others like you are willing to speak up. I'm trying to do my part too. I'm definitely a no vote on what at best is a decade long mediocre contract, and at worst is a decade long mediocre extension with many concessions.
09-22-2015, 06:37 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Position: one
Posts: 125
Originally Posted by Encanto
Hey Wally, didn't you go graduate from SERE? You survived that, no? This would be the "R" part. Maybe you can revisit some of that excellent training and mentor your peers who didn't. We need to lock arms and keep the unity going. A vocal minority seem obsessed with the "what if" theories. Here are the facts you know to be true: the new contract will be tested by CA lawyers to our detriment, take several years of gnashing teeth before remedies can be concocted (or not), further whittle down our rapidly deteriorating schedules, and yet still not provide a substantial improvement in purchasing power, QOL and retirement security that you have earned. Among other things, you will lose first class in DH's for the aforementioned lie flat (NOT necessarily business class as SL sells), lose a hotel room on IND layovers to help the company pay for sleep rooms you should already have, lose hotel in lieu of DH benefits on international trips, sleep on the floor of the 767 for a 32 hour layover (and later in a can behind the smoke barrier), and ultimately lose your self-respect when the company announces dividend increases, management bonuses and record revenue in fiscal year 2017. Not to mention encouraging the independent contractors to fly sick and stick around longer. Maybe you recall the late 90's Delta concessionary contract? They were gnawing their arms off after the company snookered them and declared management bonuses. Similarly, the bonuses here will be amply paid for by efficiencies and money left on the table in this crappy contract. What do you think the legal department's MBO will be once we sign? I hope the inner circle invite you to the TNT merger signing and after-party at the Yale Club in gratitude.
To answer your question most of us probably have enjoyed our scheduled days off, used our vacation to go fly fishing or catch up on our sleep, and otherwise have done what was asked of us by ALPA, including wearing the lanyard. Sounds like we need a process for all the quivering-in-our-boots types who worry about the outcome. First, check your mental model. Start by evaluating the contract you live under. It is better than every other airline's. Why change it to pick up a few tidbits and give up perks earned in the past? Just because you (plural) don't go to the Emirates FC lounge or use hotel in lieu of DH now doesn't mean the group should throw it away out of spite or ignorance. The option to deviate and use your money is a savings to the company, even if pilots use it in ways that weren't envisioned or approved of by SL. Next, remind yourself how wonderful you are. I recommend you watch "Swingers" and get a Vince Vaughan pep talk (You're money baby! You're so money you don't even know it. Literally.) Your touted pay "increase" may be delayed by two years, but you might capture a real pay raise instead of a COLA increase, and potentially a "bonus" that is more reflective of what you gave up since 2012/13. Third, mentally prepare for more picketing and enjoying your well-earned time off on a four week bid cycle (six weeks, what?). This will show we are unified and willing to stand fast for a truly industry leading contract. It will also provide you the buzz of shared sacrifice and esprit de corps from sticking with the fellas. Fourth, apply your angst in the right direction. Right now it is directed at your "no" peers instead of this half-baked TA our NC presented. Send it back, unify and direct the angst at the company until they produce what ALPA and management told us we are worth. You haul crazy sh*t at obnoxious hours to places no one else goes. When was the last time you bragged about going to Guangzhou, Harlingen or Lafayette to some hot babe? The present NC moved the ball into field goal range. It's first and ten and they are telling us they want to kick. It's time to move to our ground game, improve our field position and run down the clock a little bit. We have people on the seniority list who can step up and do a better job at this juncture. This NC clearly has fatigue and needs a break. No need to fire anybody, just let a fresh team take the field and end the Stockholm Syndrome that is evident. When was it ALPA's job to tell us the company can't afford A plan fixes, or any other aspect of the contract? These hard-working guys (thank you!) can continue to help from the bench and bring a new team up to speed. We don't need to capitulate. This TA is Fado Parking Lot II. No more carrying water, hard sells nor fuzzy math. Just the facts. Show some intellectual honesty and present both sides. We spoke, they acknowledged, they didn't deliver. I am guessing you watched 12 O'Clock High at some point in your Academy/ROTC/OTS days. We need the Gregory Peck figure to step up and save our NC from self-loathing and mission fatigue. Why perpetuate the low self-esteem of contracts' past when the company is advertising what a financial powerhouse they are to Wall Street. Want to compare us to the pax carriers? We make up 4-5% of the cost of a flight versus costs in the mid-teens at the pax carriers. How does that translate to the bottom line? Not to mention our flights are worth far more. Compare us in all aspects, not just the convenient categories that are one or two pax carrier contracts away from being outdated. As stated in another thread, we are asking for a reasonable share of the pie and it won't cause a ripple in the sea of money that is washing up at HQ. No more cost neutral theory. Tighten your straps and put on your game face. I look forward to following you in the picket line. . .
To answer your question most of us probably have enjoyed our scheduled days off, used our vacation to go fly fishing or catch up on our sleep, and otherwise have done what was asked of us by ALPA, including wearing the lanyard. Sounds like we need a process for all the quivering-in-our-boots types who worry about the outcome. First, check your mental model. Start by evaluating the contract you live under. It is better than every other airline's. Why change it to pick up a few tidbits and give up perks earned in the past? Just because you (plural) don't go to the Emirates FC lounge or use hotel in lieu of DH now doesn't mean the group should throw it away out of spite or ignorance. The option to deviate and use your money is a savings to the company, even if pilots use it in ways that weren't envisioned or approved of by SL. Next, remind yourself how wonderful you are. I recommend you watch "Swingers" and get a Vince Vaughan pep talk (You're money baby! You're so money you don't even know it. Literally.) Your touted pay "increase" may be delayed by two years, but you might capture a real pay raise instead of a COLA increase, and potentially a "bonus" that is more reflective of what you gave up since 2012/13. Third, mentally prepare for more picketing and enjoying your well-earned time off on a four week bid cycle (six weeks, what?). This will show we are unified and willing to stand fast for a truly industry leading contract. It will also provide you the buzz of shared sacrifice and esprit de corps from sticking with the fellas. Fourth, apply your angst in the right direction. Right now it is directed at your "no" peers instead of this half-baked TA our NC presented. Send it back, unify and direct the angst at the company until they produce what ALPA and management told us we are worth. You haul crazy sh*t at obnoxious hours to places no one else goes. When was the last time you bragged about going to Guangzhou, Harlingen or Lafayette to some hot babe? The present NC moved the ball into field goal range. It's first and ten and they are telling us they want to kick. It's time to move to our ground game, improve our field position and run down the clock a little bit. We have people on the seniority list who can step up and do a better job at this juncture. This NC clearly has fatigue and needs a break. No need to fire anybody, just let a fresh team take the field and end the Stockholm Syndrome that is evident. When was it ALPA's job to tell us the company can't afford A plan fixes, or any other aspect of the contract? These hard-working guys (thank you!) can continue to help from the bench and bring a new team up to speed. We don't need to capitulate. This TA is Fado Parking Lot II. No more carrying water, hard sells nor fuzzy math. Just the facts. Show some intellectual honesty and present both sides. We spoke, they acknowledged, they didn't deliver. I am guessing you watched 12 O'Clock High at some point in your Academy/ROTC/OTS days. We need the Gregory Peck figure to step up and save our NC from self-loathing and mission fatigue. Why perpetuate the low self-esteem of contracts' past when the company is advertising what a financial powerhouse they are to Wall Street. Want to compare us to the pax carriers? We make up 4-5% of the cost of a flight versus costs in the mid-teens at the pax carriers. How does that translate to the bottom line? Not to mention our flights are worth far more. Compare us in all aspects, not just the convenient categories that are one or two pax carrier contracts away from being outdated. As stated in another thread, we are asking for a reasonable share of the pie and it won't cause a ripple in the sea of money that is washing up at HQ. No more cost neutral theory. Tighten your straps and put on your game face. I look forward to following you in the picket line. . .
Especially the part about the PICKET LINE!!!!
-It's time folks. It is time to STAND UP for our life, our standard of living. We did it in the military, we put our lives up on the rack in order to defend our COUNTRY. We work DAMN HARD. Now it is time to put our behinds up on the rack to defend what is OURS, what we deserve for working like this, staying up all hours, weeks away from our families.
I'm not willing to let a bunch of labor attorneys whittle down our pay, whittle down our work rules....whittle down our RETIREMENT without a FIGHT!!!!
NO.
Last edited by Mark2792; 09-22-2015 at 06:54 PM.
09-23-2015, 09:36 AM
#28
trip trading freak
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: MD-11
Posts: 673
Originally Posted by FDXAV8R
Well said Encanto. It is just getting the word out to the rest of the crewforce that worries me. The union is on a sales blitz and they are happily spending our money to produce videos, host meeting, send emails all clearly aimed at selling this thing like it is the greatest thing since sliced bread. I'm really glad the dissenting voters and others like you are willing to speak up. I'm trying to do my part too. I'm definitely a no vote on what at best is a decade long mediocre contract, and at worst is a decade long mediocre extension with many concessions.
09-23-2015, 09:50 AM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: MD-11 Captain
Posts: 4,304
Originally Posted by HDawg
What's SERE?
The military sends members that are likely to be captured to a VERY REALISTIC POW school and teaches them methods to RESIST (for as long as possible). Didn't Sen. McCain give his captors the names of the Green Bay Packers when directed to give up squadron mates names?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surviv...nce_and_Escape
