HydaWood

Hey all, this really is a question for prior military guys, USMC specifically. Since I am thinking about dropping an app at FedEx I figured this was as good a place to ask the question as any. So here goes...

Coming up on 20 years and can retire, but am also in a pretty good position to stay in and maybe/probably-ish get promoted. If I get out now I'm looking at about $3500/mo after taxes the day I get out, if I stay in for another 5-6 years retirement will be more like 5500/mo just for waking up every morning. So with that being said, even if I get out now, the money any of the carriers are paying will be plenty. So I am not in it for the bucks. With the diversity of the aircraft I have flown in the past an airplane is pretty much an airplane at this point. Since they are all the same category/class I really don't care what I fly. So the only thing left is schedule.
After pouring over the forums for the last few weeks it seems like it is a given the first couple years are going to blow as far as sleep schedule goes. It takes me 3 days to recover from a 0100 landing now...I'm picturing this type of flying being a pretty miserable experience based on all the chatter. Of course that 0100 land is followed by a normal work day which does not help. Why cargo and not an airline you ask? I like FedEx because of the strength of the company, good product, going to be hiring a bunch so seniority will be moving faster and I would much rather fly boxes than people. Honestly, I am so new to this idea I really don't know if the airlines really have that much better of a schedule. Up until a couple months ago I was planning on staying in the military for a while longer.

My question is does it really ever get better when most of the flying is always at night? Seems like the schedule at FedEx is pretty flexible, does that flexibility ever yield a "normal" day-ish schedule or are the 12 days you work a month going to pretty much always be in the middle of the night?

Sorry for the length of the post, I figured if I did not explain myself a bit I would have just got a bunch of questions. Thanks in advance gang.

PurpleToolBox

If it takes you three days to recover from a 0100 landing, DON'T come to FedEx.

Even our "day trips" end with 10pm-01am landings.

Gnaw

You say you aren't in it for the bucks. If you truly mean that then you have many lower paying, passenger options that don't do the volume of night operations like the Cargo companies. If you've never done passenger flying, I wouldn't discount it so quickly.

Albief15

Can you bid around/avoid hard core AM flying with seniority? Yes.

Would I want to spend most of my career "avoiding" flying instead of "bidding" for something I sort of liked? Not so sure...

As a commuter, I got fairly senior in my seat 70% down to 30% over 4 years 72 FO and again about the same numbers as an MD11 FO. I found I flew about 60-70% but still did some night stuff. Why? Some of the good flying...international to Paris or Asia, HNL, AK, and Brazil was all back side of clock launches with good layovers or DHs on the back end. I also used the AM flights tied with a DH to get to and from work. So--even with good seniority, there were times sucking it up made my commute easier, gave me a good trip, or was just too lucrative to pass up..(i.e...a weekend layover. Would you enjoy 16-18 hours of pay for one AM launch and a 60 hour layover somewhere?)

Now...well...I'm at 80% in the left seat, and I peeked around the system at this month's bidpacks. I've been here almost 15 years, including the "lost decade" 02-12 when there wasn't much hiring at the legacies. This month I couldn't hold a regular line in my FDA. I can hold....ONE regular line on the 757 left seat in the states. I cannot hold a regular line on the A300, MD11, or 767. Now this isn't a "poor me" thread...life is good. But if I was really concerned about NOT flying nights I would be pretty stuck. I could take a $100k plus pay hit and stay in the right seat, and many of our guys do just that.

I really like the flexibility we get here. We are paid well and have (generally) a lot of flexibility in adjusting our schedules. We fly good equipment (i.e...not 737-800/900/Max) and get to see a lot of the world (or very little if you so choose). At the same time, this job--especially for a guy who already has a pension--isn't for everyone. I tell guys at other airlines all the time who ask me about leaving to come here to come book a couple jumpseats and check it out themselves. If it were me--I'd come here and get on the biggest thing I could find--MD11 or 777--and go see the world--but that is just me. If circadian issues are your main concern however, Delta, SWA, or Jetblue might be a happier fit. There is a price we pay here, and that is sometimes our schedules are nothing short of damn tough. After 15 years you might think I would just roll with it and have adapted. Actually, I still detest hub turns....and almost every time I do one I wish I was somewhere else at 0500. So why do it? Again--there is a lot of cool stuff here too that comes with the bad, and most of us have a strategy to make it work in our lives. You CAN avoid the M-F am hub turn type schedule here, but you effectively have decided to work out of about 60% of the bidback (that's a WAG..maybe more or less). If you only want 40-50% of our flying, maybe going somewhere that has 80% of it that you like might make for a happier and healthier career.

Hacker15e

Couldn't we also say the exact same thing about a career flying in the military, too?

IMHO, airline flying is a lifestyle that is tough to understand from the outside, requires some adaptation once you get into it and see how it works, and can be very enjoyable once you've had a chance to figure out how to make it work for you.

Which is exactly the same thing that happened after I took that oath and found out what being in the "Real Air Force (tm)" was about back in the day. I, and my family, all learned to orient our life around moving every couple years, deployments, nights/weekend duty, and all of the wonderful lifestyle impacts that "normal" civilian working families don't deal with. Although we could sport-b*tch about those things, eventually they just become life as we know it. And, ultimately, we learn to live with that because of the payoff of the job and career we've chosen (e.g., for me that wonderful 1.5 under the canopy turning and burning).

I suspect that the airline life, and more specifically the type of schedule that night freight companies have, turns out the same way in the long run.

F15andMD11

That 0100 landing is the first landing of the night. The next landing comes after the sort, at 0630. How do you feel about doing that for a week straight?
The airlines are an entirely different world from the military. Here you're a worker bee. Stay in, get the big retirement...

Jetjok

I have only one thing to say to you today …

It’s a jungle out there.

You gotta look out for number one.

But don’t step in number two.

And so, to all you Majors and Lt. Colonels, as you go out into the world, my advice to you is …

Don’t go! It’s rough out there! Stay in The Marines!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LF0MilNDV1I

HydaWood

Wow, thanks gents, and ladies if there are any. I was honestly expecting crickets to the post. Great feedback. Hacker15e pretty much nailed it. Military life is rough (13 moves in 20 years, 4 years deployed, 1 year aboard ship) but you get used to it. I am just tired of getting used to it and was thinking about a change. I figured if I am going to be miserable for 3-4 of the next 6 years gutting it out here, why not be miserable for 2-3 somewhere else and potentially get a much better lifestyle on the backside. Albief15, you have some great, highly detailed, posts on this forum (I really only understand about half of what you are talking about, need to get Rosetta Stone for airline speak). Much appreciated. The fact that you are still sucking up less than desireable lines after 15 years gives me some perspective. Sticking it out here and fully retiring at 50 years old with a comfortable lifestyle and nothing to do but chase the dog around the house and work on my golf swing may be the way to go. Then again, I could just man up and stop whining about being tired all the time and see the rest of the world with more money than I know what to do with.
I'll drink on it...

Thanks again fellas.

Hacker15e

Two points to ponder here:

One, get a similar take from someone with similar experience to Albie at a passenger airline after 15 years and see what they say. There can be substantial differences in seat progression, schedules, and pay between the cargo carriers and legacy airlines.

My thumbnail sketch is that cargo guys work crappier schedules when they *are* flying, but have more days off and are paid more overall. The passenger guys have easier/better schedules when they're on duty, but work slightly harder for slightly less money. One of the two paths might float your boat more than the other, so check it out thoroughly before you decide. There's a lot of time, money, and quality of life on the line in that decision. In my opinion, they're both good options but YMMV.

Two, I'd really think about what that "fully retiring at 50" on a 26 or 28-year O-5 pension would look like compared to going to work at the airlines. You may be able to lead a leisurely lifestyle on $5,500/month, but are you paying for your kids' college, or traveling, or finally buying toys you've always dreamed of on that kind of money? A 2nd-year widebody FO at FedEx is making $5,500 twice a month, and the numbers only go up from there.

Albief15

Again..not a "poor me" thread. Do the math on 1000 hours a year at our payrates. Making 100-400 more hours is possible with vacation sellback, a draft trip, getting bumped/revised/etc and the money is quite good. Working less and enjoying more free time is sometimes also an option. My kids went/will go to college with safe new cars, tuition paid, and every chance to do well if they stay between the lines. My wife is now "Tai Tai", and her main job is learning Cantonese and where to take me on our next hike or dinner out in town. Its hard work now and then, but I've worked a lot harder for a lot less--as have most of us.

Just don't overlook the Legacies or Nationals if you have to have the sun in your eyes most of the time. Those are great jobs too.

Just whatever you do--respect the profession. We ***** about the bads. We gloat about the good. But this is an honorable and great way to make a living, and nobody wants to share the cockpit with anyone who is constantly miserable or doesn't give the job the respect it deserves. Most of the time--its easy...until that one day a year it isn't. We don't get paid for the good 360+ good days--we get paid to be ready for the one really bad one.