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rholbrook 07-19-2017 01:29 PM

ATP helicopter to ATP fixed wing add on?....
Hello all. I'm wanting to get my fixed wing add on ratings and considering a move towards the FW world. I have an ATP helicopter with about 5000 TT in helicopters, and a Private ASEL. I have my own C172 and have around 250 hours in airplanes. Can I get an ATP single engine add on for FW? Been told yes, and figured I'd rather just add to the ATP I already have. Would this be worth it, or should I just get a Commericial Instrument add on? Is it really necessary to have an ATP single / ATP multi if you're not planning on being in the airlines necessarily?

Any insight would be helpful and I'm just trying to save myself the most time and money. FSDO can't even really give a straight answer on the add on, just refer me to FAR's which is a big no sh!tter, and those are a little vague.


PerfInit 07-19-2017 01:45 PM

The short answer is yes, but please review 14 CFR 61.151 through 61.159 for the requirements. The answer to your question will reveal itself when you do a thorough logbook review and ensure you meet all the requirements in 61.165 (b). Of course you will also need to ensure you have an Instrument Airplane Rating as well as take a FAA practical test for Additional Category and Class Rating added to your exisiting ATP. Check the ATP PTS for more info on the tasks required.

Twin Wasp 07-20-2017 07:11 AM

You'll need 250 hours PIC in airplanes, of which 100 is X-country and 25 night. All the other time requirements should be covered by your helicopter ATP. To add an airplane category rating to an ATP you'll need to pass another FAA written. There is the ARA test to add single engine on to your helicopter ATP. In 2016 it had a 50% pass ratio. Two people took it. Or maybe one person twice. And you'll need to pass an ATP checkride.

I don't know why PI is saying you'll need the instrument airplane rating. That would be for someone who doesn't hold an ATP already. The ATP checkride is outlined in the PTS and the same as an IR ride but to a higher standard. If you go the commercial/IR route there are two checkrides. The commercial checkride is a bunch of visual maneuvers you'll never do again and then you have to IR checkride.

PerfInit 07-20-2017 07:55 AM

Instrument Helicopter Rating will not suffice

Twin Wasp 07-21-2017 07:08 AM

I still don't see it. There's not much in F-SIMs about additional categories and classes. It does say

"For an additional category rating, the applicant must present a logbook or other records showing that the applicant has received instruction in that category of aircraft and has met all of the requirements of 61.165. A knowledge test is required for an additional category rating."

61.153 says the applicant must hold a commercial cert with an IR, it doesn't say in the same category or class. And 61.167 says the holder of an ATP has the same privileges as commercial with an IR.

rholbrook 07-22-2017 08:47 PM

Thanks to both of you for responding. Yeah I don't think I need an airplane instrument first, ATP is an instrument rating so you're just making a lateral move unless Perfinit has a good FAR reference otherwise that's news to me. You'd think already having an ATP you're just demonstrating FW proficiency to the ATP level. I'm taking the written next month which should be the biggest PITA of it all I hope.

Twinwasp when you say the ARA test I assume you're still just talking about the FAA written? I don't know of any others in addition to that.

I'm thinking about taking the commercial instrument FW written as well in case this ATP single add on goes south with interpretation of the regs or whatever. Then I will just get the commercial Inst FW add on.

I live in the PNW.

PerfInit 07-26-2017 11:58 AM

The OP holds an ATP with an instrument rating that was presumably obtained in helicopters. Instrument ratings are category specific. That's why there are separate Instrument Airplane and Instrument Helicopter ratings. Otherwise it would just be ""Instrument Rating" (generic).

Let me ask this question, does the ATP certificate also state: Private privileges, ASEL; Instrument Airplane?

Lastly, If the OP doesn't have an Instrument Airplane Rating, Can he legally file and fly IFR in a single engine aircraft now, using Private Pilot privileges?

rmoore47 01-01-2019 02:50 AM

Comm heli to Comm/ATP fixed wing add on
Hello all. I read the post belong. I'm in the same boat sort of. I'm wanting to get my Commercial fixed wing multi add on ratings, then move to an ATP. I have a Commercial helicopter rating with about 2000 TT, and a Private w/ instr ASEL and around 150 hours.

I understand I can't take the Fixed wing ATP until I've taken the ATP CTP. But can I take the ATP CTP before getting my Commercial SEL. And then take the ATP written without the commercial add-on, since there is no written required for an add-on? The FAA requirement webpage doesn't state hour requirements. I do know the ATP CTP never expires and the ATP written is good for 5 years. I should have both completed in less than 2 years.


Twin Wasp 01-01-2019 07:39 AM

First to the old part of the thread as if anyone cared -

61.167 (a) A person who holds an airline transport pilot certificate is entitled to the same privileges as a person who holds a commercial pilot certificate with an instrument rating. The OP would not be able to operate IFR without an IR which an ATP incudes.

rmoore - The only requirements for taking a written are the CTP for the ATM and an instructor's signoff for pilot certs below the ATP level. The ATP CTP provider I'm familiar with says they want students to hold a PVT or COMM with a AMEL rating but they've had many military rotor wing pilots come through with just the 61.73 military certificate.

The only down side to taking all the writtens long before the checkrides is there is an oral along with the checkride and you'd want to review all the trivia again before the checkride. If you're planning a type ride the trivia is more aircraft specific but a light airplane ride will go over all the basics again.

JohnBurke 01-01-2019 10:22 PM


Originally Posted by Twin Wasp (Post 2734739)
First to the old part of the thread as if anyone cared -

61.167 (a) A person who holds an airline transport pilot certificate is entitled to the same privileges as a person who holds a commercial pilot certificate with an instrument rating. The OP would not be able to operate IFR without an IR which an ATP incudes.

To that same end and addressing the same point: the original poster sought ATP privileges in fixed wing, but only held a helicopter instrument rating.

Eligibility for the ATP only requires that the applicant hold an instrument rating: it does not need to be specific to the category and class of ATP sought. In this case, the original poster holds a helicopter instrument rating, but seeks the ATP fixed wing (in his or her case, in Airplane, Single-Engine Land). The original poster does not require an airplane-instrument rating. He or she already holds an instrument rating, and while 14 CFR 61.153(d)(1) does require the applicant to hold an instrument rating, it is not specified as category specific to the ATP privileges sought. The regulation simply states "instrument rating.


61.153 Eligibility requirements: General.
(d) Meet at least one of the following requirements:

(1) Holds a commercial pilot certificate with an instrument rating issued under this part;
The written test must be category-class specific and the practical test must, of course be taken in the specific category and class aircraft, but the previously-held instrument rating need not be of the same category and class.

That the original poster holds private pilot privileges in airplane, single-engine land without an instrument-airplane rating is irrelevant, and whether or not he or she could file IFR or operate under IFR as PIC in the single engine airplane, prior to taking the ATP ride, is also irrelevant.

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