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Flight training financing, career change

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Flight training financing, career change

Old 07-28-2017, 10:28 PM
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Default Flight training financing, career change

Hey folks.

Humble student here, and a brand new member as well. I was browsing through this forum for a majority of the day today, and figured I might sound my own concerns as a student in aviation to see what the community's thoughts are.

I graduated in 2015 with a B.M. in Sacred Music and organ, and went on for a M.M. in the same subject field at IU. I have one more year of the three year master's degree left to go, and I'm about $20k in debt to my undergrad. Parents have helped with the degree but I'm left to my own devices for flying.

Flying has always been on the back of my stovetop throughout my college ed, until a year ago when a fellow pilot friend of mine told me that I won't have much chance to advance in aviation if I keep it as a "fallback career". Do note, I was 24 at the time. Now I'm 25. It indeed has been a lifelong passion of mine, but during HS, I felt called to music, at least until I hit my MM at one of the most prestigious music schools in the country. I quickly felt my passion for music dying away... that is, I feel like I am putting my all in and feeling like I can't get anything out of it. Plus, the pay is pretty dim... $30k annually as a church musician just doesn't seem to be enough for someone planning to marry and have kids.

Last September, I had fair bit of cash saved up to jump into my private, but nowhere near enough to complete it. I took several lessons my first month, I think about 2/wk, but then had to space it out over 2/mo and as of late, I've been struggling with other expenses and have logged somewhere around two or three hours of dual since may... I understand the memory retention connection to lesson frequency... for some reason it hasn't seemed to really affect me.

I am hoping that my PPL will be completed within the next calendar year, about the same time I complete my MM. Whether that will happen or not, I don't know (it certainly won't happen at this rate). I would like to jump on with ATP flight school when I get my PPL, and stick with them until I get the CFI job with them, and then one of their carrier programs that they so often tout about.

I'm curious about several things here: 1) do I have time, as a 25 y/o with no experience, to do "pay as I go" training right now, with the current hiring gap? Would it be worth it to get hired some 5-10 years from now? Most I've talked to tell me to get into a job ASAP, which entails signing my life away to the bank to pull out a ginormous loan for ATP, so I can get in and get hired, so to speak. Of course, the RJ recruitment folks I've talked to have no problem telling me this is a possible option.

If I did invest in a giant loan for ATP, which is my current, yet very, very frightening plan , what are the possibilities that I could easily pay it back, given I was hired for Part 121/135 ops? The folks I've considered most for my first carrier job are Envoy, Ameriflight, PSA, Republic, Skywest, and Endeavor. Planning to live in the Midwest so not willing to commute too far, but then again, who is

I checked the base pay without the shiny bonuses and such for EDV on Glassdoor, and after seeing that, i reconsidered staying in church music... it actually could come close to paying more. Something like $27k... are low wages for beginning FOs still the norm as they were a decade ago?

Anyone who might be able to throw some info at me, please do. I would be very grateful to hear what everyone has to say. Thank you!
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Old 07-28-2017, 10:50 PM
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Find something that you can tolerate that pays more. The explanation that you are trying to expand your horizons past your degree may actually help you. Then, pay-your-way, save up and get certificates/ratings one at a time. It may take a little longer, but you are not old and shouldn't be taking out any massive loans. That is absolutely the last thing you want to do when you are young.
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Old 07-29-2017, 07:43 AM
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ATP will get you through in less than 10 months, but it will cost you more than what they say it will (they are really good at marketing).
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Old 07-29-2017, 12:37 PM
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I'll add this:

Anyone who tells you that you have to get done "RIGHT NOW" that you have to get done "AS FAST AS POSSIBLE" that you want to "CATCH THE HIRING WAVE" and that "THERE WILL NEVER BE A BETTER TIME" is just someone that in some way or another, just wants your money. Unfortunately when you are young you are more impulsive and you'll tend to think you need to get on the bandwagon, but you do not. There are some things to be said for some of the bigger schools and standardization, but none that are worth the debt and struggle they put you through. Remember, you aren't just financing the cost, you are also financing the interest, which ends up being a huge amount, you should research what you'll pay in interest over the life of that loan, then you should think about what else you could do with that money, like buy a house, invest it, having a kid, etc.
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Old 07-29-2017, 07:27 PM
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I encourage you to look in to degree granting institutions that offer flight training for hours. There are a few options (if you're willing to relocate) that offer A.S. and B.S. degrees that include flight. Applying for additional student loans, while scary, would still be far less than ATP. You may also be looking at a reduced time frame if you can transfer any of your credits from your other degrees. This would allow you to use R-ATP minimums as well.



It's more or less what I'm doing.
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Old 07-30-2017, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Romeo Hotel View Post
I encourage you to look in to degree granting institutions that offer flight training for hours. There are a few options (if you're willing to relocate) that offer A.S. and B.S. degrees that include flight. Applying for additional student loans, while scary, would still be far less than ATP. You may also be looking at a reduced time frame if you can transfer any of your credits from your other degrees. This would allow you to use R-ATP minimums as well.



It's more or less what I'm doing.
I have checked out this option before. Me being a Hoosier in my homestate, it wouldn't be much of an issue to get up to Purdue or ISU for the aviation tech degrees that those schools offer. I've called Purdue on this subject, but they said I can't get an additional undergrad degree if I already have one, which is odd, because I have heard that such things are indeed possible. Does anyone have any commentary on this?

Wholeheartedly agree on the other comments of the ATP loan. That's the thing that scares me the most... maybe that's a sign I just don't want to risk it. Same kind of risk management principle I apply to my flying I already do... indeed, in figuring out the average salary from most regionals last night, I may have an awful difficult time paying off the ATP loan...
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Old 07-31-2017, 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Theorganist92 View Post
I have checked out this option before. Me being a Hoosier in my homestate, it wouldn't be much of an issue to get up to Purdue or ISU for the aviation tech degrees that those schools offer. I've called Purdue on this subject, but they said I can't get an additional undergrad degree if I already have one, which is odd, because I have heard that such things are indeed possible. Does anyone have any commentary on this?

Wholeheartedly agree on the other comments of the ATP loan. That's the thing that scares me the most... maybe that's a sign I just don't want to risk it. Same kind of risk management principle I apply to my flying I already do... indeed, in figuring out the average salary from most regionals last night, I may have an awful difficult time paying off the ATP loan...

I have no idea what Purdue's policy is on degrees, but I can tell you both the VA and about 99% of other colleges do not care about what you currently have. Now, that being said, if you are CURRENTLY in the military and trying to use Tuition Assistance, that's another story. TA cannot be used towards a degree of lesser or equal value. You can't get a second B.S. or an Associate's if you already have a Bachelor's. But once you're out on the street, you can absolutely use your GI Bill toward any degree you choose.

There are other 'fast track' ATP type programs out there that aren't as expensive as ATP itself. They are still pretty pricey, but they aren't as crazy painful to look at. My advice through, is that if you're willing to relocate, there are quite a few schools that will get you what you're looking for in 2 years.
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Old 07-31-2017, 11:52 AM
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After you get your ratings, may i suggest mission aviation.

https://www.maf.org/what-we-do/aviation
https://www.maf.org/serve/volunteer/music-ambassadors

Sounds like you are into the church, which is a requirement for these positions. Also I just saw on their website they also have a "music mission" in addition to the flying. Sounds like it might be right up your alley. Not as glamorous as the shiny pointy jet, but absolutely more rewarding and a lifetime of stories to tell your grandkids. You gotta leave the midwest though, but I'm willing to bet once you've seen what's out there, you'll be just fine.

After getting your commercial, I'd give them a call, I'd bet they'd love to hear about you.

Check out this guy's blog-
https://captainsblogafrica.wordpress.com/

I'm not into the church myself, otherwise I'd be there flying caravans or 206's in the bush and not behind this desk!
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