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-   -   ATP vs American Flyers vs others (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/flight-schools-training/107922-atp-vs-american-flyers-vs-others.html)

robss 08-28-2017 05:59 AM

ATP vs American Flyers vs others
 
Hi,

I am looking to being training next spring and have been looking at ATP Flight School mostly but also heard about American Flyers.

ATP is quite upfront about their costs and timelines but seems American Flyers don't disclose these details. Does anyone know how much American Flyers cost and timelines for each stage of process?

Also is there much difference between the schools in terms of getting placed and earning potential since I know ATP offer a guaranteed instructor placement.

Or are there any other recommendations for schools? I am based in Dallas, TX and currently only have about 2 hrs of flying logged through intro lessons so would basically need to start from zero experience.

deftone 08-29-2017 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robss (Post 2420822)
Hi,

I am looking to being training next spring and have been looking at ATP Flight School mostly but also heard about American Flyers.

ATP is quite upfront about their costs and timelines but seems American Flyers don't disclose these details. Does anyone know how much American Flyers cost and timelines for each stage of process?

Also is there much difference between the schools in terms of getting placed and earning potential since I know ATP offer a guaranteed instructor placement.

Or are there any other recommendations for schools? I am based in Dallas, TX and currently only have about 2 hrs of flying logged through intro lessons so would basically need to start from zero experience.

Im not sure of timelines but this is the American Flyers pricing current as of last week.


Solo C172 $225 per hour
Dual C172 $260 per hour
Ground instruction $90 per hour
Weekend written exam course $495
Written exam fee $165
DPE fee $600

At those prices I would NEVER go there. It makes ATP look like a great deal!

The issue I had with the ATP guaranteed CFI position is that you basically need to go where they want you to go. They give you a choice of locations that have vacancies, so you may end up working somewhere with lower potential for hours.

badflaps 08-30-2017 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deftone (Post 2421830)
Im not sure of timelines but this is the American Flyers pricing current as of last week.


Solo C172 $225 per hour
Dual C172 $260 per hour
Ground instruction $90 per hour
Weekend written exam course $495
Written exam fee $165
DPE fee $600

At those prices I would NEVER go there. It makes ATP look like a great deal!

The issue I had with the ATP guaranteed CFI position is that you basically need to go where they want you to go. They give you a choice of locations that have vacancies, so you may end up working somewhere with lower potential for hours.

If you plan to make aviation a career, get used to going where you don't want to go.:D

robss 08-30-2017 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deftone (Post 2421830)

The issue I had with the ATP guaranteed CFI position is that you basically need to go where they want you to go. They give you a choice of locations that have vacancies, so you may end up working somewhere with lower potential for hours.

From what I understand though if they donít have a position available where you want to work then you can just go to another school and be a CFI there should they be hiring. Also since Dallas has 3 ATP schools I would just hope that one of those had a space when the time comes.

Problem with those prices is they are all Ďby the hourí which means there is no way to control the price tag whereas at least ATP is a lump price.

deftone 08-30-2017 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robss (Post 2422559)
From what I understand though if they donít have a position available where you want to work then you can just go to another school and be a CFI there should they be hiring. Also since Dallas has 3 ATP schools I would just hope that one of those had a space when the time comes.

You are not actually employed by ATP during your CFI phase, you are a contractor, so free to go wherever you want at any time (outside of ATP)

Pirringer 09-26-2017 07:39 PM

What do hourly rates have to do with anytgimg
 
As an airline pilot with over 20 years experience, I will say this, ATP produces crap. They do not educate and the majority of their pilots wash out. The select few that make it, well, they struggle.

ATP has financing, that's it. Multi time, who needs it these days? Get an education. I've flown with a lot of American Flyers graduates and they all know their stuff.



Quote:

Originally Posted by deftone (Post 2421830)
Im not sure of timelines but this is the American Flyers pricing current as of last week.


Solo C172 $225 per hour
Dual C172 $260 per hour
Ground instruction $90 per hour
Weekend written exam course $495
Written exam fee $165
DPE fee $600

At those prices I would NEVER go there. It makes ATP look like a great deal!

The issue I had with the ATP guaranteed CFI position is that you basically need to go where they want you to go. They give you a choice of locations that have vacancies, so you may end up working somewhere with lower potential for hours.


kingsnake2 09-27-2017 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deftone (Post 2421830)
Im not sure of timelines but this is the American Flyers pricing current as of last week.


Solo C172 $225 per hour
Dual C172 $260 per hour
Ground instruction $90 per hour
Weekend written exam course $495
Written exam fee $165
DPE fee $600

At those prices I would NEVER go there. It makes ATP look like a great deal!

The issue I had with the ATP guaranteed CFI position is that you basically need to go where they want you to go. They give you a choice of locations that have vacancies, so you may end up working somewhere with lower potential for hours.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pirringer (Post 2436581)
As an airline pilot with over 20 years experience, I will say this, ATP produces crap. They do not educate and the majority of their pilots wash out. The select few that make it, well, they struggle.

ATP has financing, that's it. Multi time, who needs it these days? Get an education. I've flown with a lot of American Flyers graduates and they all know their stuff.

ATP's hourly rates are pretty close to those you listed for American Flyers, they just don't publish their hourly rates much. Also ATP includes a ton of time-sharing (two pilots logging PIC) which is how they keep their overall price somewhat competitive.

I think US Aviation's program with Tarrant County College is a better program at least for new high school graduates and others just starting their career. In two years you earn your licenses through CFII, an associates degree, and there is financing. Furthermore, its cheaper than ATP. Financing is also cheaper since your using higher education loans instead of vocational training loans. New-to-college students may also get the Pell Grant.

Pedro4President 09-30-2017 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robss (Post 2420822)
Hi,

I am looking to being training next spring and have been looking at ATP Flight School mostly but also heard about American Flyers.

ATP is quite upfront about their costs and timelines but seems American Flyers don't disclose these details. Does anyone know how much American Flyers cost and timelines for each stage of process?

Also is there much difference between the schools in terms of getting placed and earning potential since I know ATP offer a guaranteed instructor placement.

Or are there any other recommendations for schools? I am based in Dallas, TX and currently only have about 2 hrs of flying logged through intro lessons so would basically need to start from zero experience.

So if you are looking at flight schools in ADS airport I might suggest Monarch. Never flew with them but I had a few friends and students that did. They all had really good things to say about it. I know several of the DPEs in the area and they have said when it comes to American Flyers, ATP, and Monarch that Monarch puts out the best candidates.

Avoid US aviation academy at all cost. Same with skymates in Arlington. USAA may have some solid pilots but their equipment is terrible! I talked to a guy going through the program on my way to employee parking lot from DFW. He was working at Envoy on the ground side and flying at USAA and he said that half their 152s are down at the moment for maintenance. He said the hardest thing to do is get a working airplane because the Chinese students always had them booked up.

SonicFlyer 09-30-2017 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pirringer (Post 2436581)
I will say this, ATP produces crap. They do not educate and the majority of their pilots wash out.

Cite your source?

kingsnake2 10-02-2017 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedro4President (Post 2438840)
So if you are looking at flight schools in ADS airport I might suggest Monarch. Never flew with them but I had a few friends and students that did. They all had really good things to say about it. I know several of the DPEs in the area and they have said when it comes to American Flyers, ATP, and Monarch that Monarch puts out the best candidates.

Avoid US aviation academy at all cost. Same with skymates in Arlington. USAA may have some solid pilots but their equipment is terrible! I talked to a guy going through the program on my way to employee parking lot from DFW. He was working at Envoy on the ground side and flying at USAA and he said that half their 152s are down at the moment for maintenance. He said the hardest thing to do is get a working airplane because the Chinese students always had them booked up.

Sorry your friend had a poor experience. Tarrant County College (TCC) does have a dedicated fleet of aircraft not shared with any other students.

The rest of the fleet is shared and we do give priority to students with check rides and stage checks. Every now and then we are slammed for maintenance and those without a check scheduled will get bumped. This happens at every flight school from time to time. We do not prioritize Chinese students over our domestic students, only by the type of flight. That said, 90%+ of our students are Chinese so when planes are tight, chances are that they will represent the majority of checks. Overall, we have very few flights year round cancel for lack of aircraft because we keep a number in reserve.


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