total time/cost of flight training
 

I am interested in going through flight training. There is a flight school close by to me, they have (3) cessna 150 for 75/hour and (2) cessna 152 for 80/hour and I think an instructor is 25/hour. I am trying to save enough money to go straight though from 0-cfi. I want to do it in the fastest cheapest way possible. I think that would mean saving enough money to go start to finish so I can do it fulltime. What do you think the total amount of money would be and what is the fastest I could complete this if I am doing it fulltime?Currently I have a four year degree but there aren't any jobs I can get with it. I have a job I hate unrelated to my degree and dont make much money. I am living at home so can save most of what I earn. I hope to save enough in 2-3 years. Or I could take out a loan and start now. I am also considering buying a cheap cessna 150 for training but not sure if that would save me any money.

$25 for cfi and $80 for 152, those are great prices. Where are you located ?

Airspeed, av gas and money are what you need
 

Those rates you quoted are lower than most, for sure. Another question for them is if those aircraft are equipped and current for IFR?
Here's the deal, you need to get to 1500 hours as a commercial instrument rated multiengine pilot with at least 50 ME and 100 instrument time. Here's the order:
Private
Instrument
Commercial SE
(This is the point that you start and complete your initial CFI training, if you can't afford to pay for your own flight time to get to 1500)
Multi (as an add-on to your commercial certificate, requiring less time than doing a private multi, then commercial multi).
ATP and some others, right or wrong, skip the commercial SE and you do all of your commercial training in a multi. In my opinion, this is a ploy to extract more money from you, in the form of multiengine timebuilding. Many regionals will hire you with 25 ME and let you build the rest in sims on their nickle, so why pay your training provider for that time?
Lastly, consider working as an instructor at a flight school with a flow. Envoy has a cool program where you actually work for them as an instructor, with a participating flight school acting as a middleman, turning your time card to Envoy, for their payment to you (with full Envoy benefits).
Since they are owned by AA, it's a direct path from a C152 into a regional jet then into a mainline.
If you do choose flight instruction, be sure to do it in an area with good flying weather year 'round and choose a busy school. Make the right choices and you could be in the right seat of a regional jet in less than two years, if the industry is in the same place as it is now.
If you can afford it, skip the flight school, buy an aircraft in good mechanical condition and fly your way to 1500 hours.
Good luck!

So at about 100/hour and it takes about 250 to get commercial rating is 25k a good estimate on the total cost?

Remember, you can split some time once you have your Private. Also you have to factor in about $40/h for a CFI, I had about 100h dual, so that would be another $4,000USD.

Those are really low rates by market standard. Typically I'd say $50-70,000 for 0-CFII just depending on where you live, fleet used, etc.

Very good prices, I'm paying 55/hr for instructor, 145/hr for C172 (G1000 or steam is same price), 185/hr for a Piper Arrow, 185/hr for a SR20, 225/hr for a Grumman Cougar here in Baltimore.

I am in a program going through MEI, at the moment I've been flying about a year and a half and am about 3/4 of the way through my commercial (I also work full time). Anticipate being done somewhere around April of next year. Total cost will be around $55-60k and will finish somewhere around 250 hours TT, about 30 ME

I went from 0-hero(CSEL) in 1 year of training at a part 61. Have spent roughly $30k. Have split most of my time with a time builder. 0 sim time
It is easy to get financed for a 141 school, but is alot more expensive and training is more of paying for a steak dinner and getting fast food.
Should consider getting a personal loan of half of the cost, and rest paying cash, and going to a part 61.

How exactly does the splitting time thing work? I know I need 40 hours to get ppl then I can split some of the other 200 hours to get to commercial? I would like to go 0- commercial by the end of next year. I would like to work full-time and use all the money to pay for my training as I go over the course of the year. How demanding is flight training if I am working day 50 hours a week ill I be able to fly like 5 hours a week doing like 2-3 lessons a week and study in my free time. I am pretty good with self study I feel like I did mostly self study in college and did well.

First off, I wouldn't plan on PPL being 40 hours, especially if you are doing it part time on top of full-time work. I would plan on a minimum of 50 hours if doing training part time.

As for time sharing, you can start it any time after private. You'll need about 50 hours of dual time for instrument and commercial initial, so a total of around 150 hours of time sharing if you do every bit of time building with another pilot. Most students do less - more like 100 hours shared.

The legal bits of it are that one PIC pilot is under the hood and the other is VFR PIC. Both log the time except for takeoff and landing during which only one of you can log the time.

yeah that would be cool if I could split 150 hours at 75/hour that would only be 37.50x150=5625$. It sounds like I really need to find someone in the cleveland area who wants to split time when I get to that point that would save me a huge chunk of money! Thanks for the info

50hrs a week and 5 flight hours a week is a pretty big load. 5 flight hours for a low time private is a good amount a week. Each flight will be around an hour, and that is a lot of information to absorb. On your initial training, anything over 1.5 id say your brain wont be able to work as hard. It is alot of stuff thrown at you. Maybe alot easier in a non controlled area/airport. Also depends on how good your instructor is.
I would go on a discovery flight with a GOOD instructor and see how it goes, and tell him about your plan. See what he says.


Also have to factor in weather and maintX. There will be some days that you are grounded...

If I were you and wanted to get your commercial ASAP and start flying as a career, make it a priority.
Really depends on your living situation. Family, bills, ect. If you dont have any of those, or just a few bills, go get financed for half of the price of training and the rest cash. Work less and fly more.

Just a few thoughts from a graybeard near the end of his career. If my son approached me with a similar question, on the face of it, I'd see the allure of fast and cheap. Here is the reality and what I'd caution him or anyone pursuing "fast and cheap", its a fools chase. Your goals (I presume) is a career as a professional aviator, you are not trying to buy a cheap rug to cover a bad spot on a crappy floor is a rundown apartment. This is your future!! Don't F** it up to save a couple (thousand) bucks! Look over your FBO with the low cost aircraft, compare them to another airport near by with more expensive equipment. Look at the shop where they are maintained, even if your not familiar with aviation maintenance, just use your experience comparing and seeing if it appears to be doing things properly. Ask around the airport about the school and the quality of maintenance and how they treat people. If it is a lower rung operator, instructors won't hang around long or the one that stay may not be able to do any better. I don't know the going rate where you are looking but if the school is charging $25 an hour (the instructor will likely get less than that) while others are getting more, ask why. Interview the instructor(s) and if you unsure of what to ask or uncomfortable doing so, ask for references from him, the school or locals that are using the airport.

Bottom line, don't make price the main criteria for deciding who you learn with and who's airplanes you fly. Your life is (literally) hanging on your decision.

Good points from a fellow FedExer and the guy with the best avatar on the forum. :D
There's also no substitute for experience. You can only get that one hour at a time. Doing the minimum as fast as possible probably translates into a sub-par pilot and instructor who may get themselves and their students hurt.

Check out Integrated Flight Training Academy. They're in Fort Lauderdale. $30k for commercial, instrument with 50 hrs multi.

What hourly rate are they charging? Either they are lying or they'll be out of business soon imo.....

yeah I'd be leery, Av8r18 just joined and has 2 posts promoting this place, especially if they are looking for that 30k up front

$79,600. 6 months 0 hours to 250 hours. ATP.... :D

If you have your own plane, it may be possible to find a CFI in your area that will fly with you for free. I have a couple friends that teach at schools, but do training for free on the side just for the additional hours to get to their 1500 mark. I personally wouldn't go around asking for that, but befriend a few instructors and see where it goes.

If you have your own plane, you will have tons of people that want to be your friend all of a sudden. :D

Good luck!

Update
 

It’s been a few years since I have last spoken to prospective pilots thinking about the profession. And often a kid comes to the flight deck with similar questions. Could someone ballpark me the new figures for the following?

Part 61 local flight school private pilot rating cost?
Part 61 local flight school private through IFR, commercial, multi and CFI?
4-year aviation degree at a college with 141 program?

Last I knew it was 5k for a private, 30k for all your ratings at college (flight training costs only), and if you went to an ERAU/UND you were looking at 100k+ for your bachelor’s degree.

Thanks

I knew a fellow who went in with his brother and they bought a light twin together. They did a lot of their training in it. When they were done, they sold it for what they paid for it. Free twin airplane! (But of course they had to put up the money in the beginning.)

Looking at it from the opposite point of view, it should be mentioned that if there are any mechanical problems with such an airplane, the "owners" have to pay for them out of their own pocket. It seems the minimum price for anything that goes wrong with an airplane nowadays is a thousand dollars! And what does insurance and an annual cost nowadays? How about engines that have a high TBO (time before overhaul)? The nice thing about renting is there are no maintenance costs (which can be huge).

Twenty years ago, we used to say a light twin will cost you $40,000. If you buy one for $20,000, guess what? You will spend another $20,00 getting it ready to fly. How much would that figure be today?

Private: about 10k
0-cfi: approx 50k



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I don't think it's usual to start PPl with buying a plane immediately... I think it pays only if you rent it for a flight school / sightseeing flights / PIC building time pilots etc etc... but there is a chance you cant fly your own airplane because it's busy when you random want to fly....
and other question is the accidents.... when stg gets broken, by an other pilot, needs time to fix it... so its risky.
Better to rent it for a flight school than private pilots without a company behind.

If you dont give for rent your future cessna it just cost a ton of money... :-/

btw would be cool to own an airplane :)

That’s quite an investment now, thank you.

I used to pay 12-15 bucks an hour, and that's been a while. Today it's out of sight.

A good deal these days is 125 an hour plus 30 for an instructor; the national average is 60-80 hours for a private. That's 9,300-12,400 just for the airplane. Add 600 for the examiner, 500 for a headset, 600 for books and groundschool or training, and incidentals, and it's closer to 15,000 for a typical student to get to the private.

I'd say it's extremely rare to see IPs bill out at less than $45/hour now. Most flight schools pay $25+ an hour. Many pay over $30.

I know. That's why I said those numbers were a good deal. A worse-case scenario may cost considerably more.

The instructor, however, isn't the lions share of the cost of learning to fly.

What time period amounted to 5k for PPL/30 for everything?

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The nineties.

Well 30k in 1995 is approximately 49k in 2017, so things have stayed mostly the same

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It's about $10k for a private license now.

Everything will cost around $70k at least, likely more.

University will cost upwards of $150k at least (degree + flight training).

If you're paying 70k+ to a local part 61 school, something is wrong

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So is the general consensus that if you go part 61/141 local flight school you’re looking at over $50,000? Couple that with a Bachelor’s degree around $125,000 roughly or would you say more?

Is going the UPT military route still the most cost-effective method?

Last question...a decade ago CFIs earned $15,000-$20,000 per year — is this still the case or has it risen since Regional FOs can easily earn $50,000 first year now? Is CFI the “entry-level” job still or do Commercial Multi pilots go directly to Part 91 corporate now?

I’m speaking to some high schoolers soon about pilot careers and my perspective is from a decade ago, so trying to gauge what’s realistic now in terms of progression and cost.

Thanks

Yes, military is most cost effective since it could bring potentially bring your cost to $0.00

The cheapest/fastest civilian way is to do Part 141 through a community college. That will get you your ratings and associates degree for around 70K. Then transfer into a 4 year school, ideally online, so you can flight instruct full time and take classes in between students, at night or on bad weather days.

You can get the bachelors degree and 1500 hours in around 4 years for less than 100K if you go about it aggressively

Yep. If you really hustle you can find the damnedest deals. Want cheap light twin time?


https://youtu.be/knb3qNq-Uho

LOL. I can see the look on a recruiter’s face now when I show my ME time in that bad boy

Is it possible for a 50+ to start fly career
 

Flying has always been my passion. I have some hours from 2 decades ago and I had to give it up for family reasons. Now after 25 years in corporate America its time for me to really do what I was meant to do. I know that some things in the industry has changed and I am not fooling myself my chances of making a legacy are slim to none. But if I can just make enough to pay the bills I would make that trade NOW. Does anyone think its possible to make out a living for another 12 years before retirement age? If so, what is the fastest track?

You should repost this as a new topic.

I am not a pilot, just a future pilot’s wife, but about two years ago, a CFI at my husbands FBO hit 1500hrs and was immediately hired at a regional at the age of 62.

There's a whole different section of the forum for question like yours, found here: https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/career-questions/

A relevant thread to consider reading would be this one: https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/c...er-change.html

Good luck!