Question for an FBO / CFI
 

What are some things to look for in a FBO / CFI when researching flight training?


-LAFF

-COST
-Quality, number and type of aircraft
-Ouality of onsite maintenance
-# of students succesfully certificated
-recognized by industry ( Cessna Pilot Center, etc.)
-scheduling and availability
-location
-ground school and FTD training

Those are some things I think make a good flight school :)

LAFF, what happened to ATP? :-P

Due to the transient nature of flight instructors, the person in charge is probably the most critical factor...that person will be your POC and continuity for your entire program.

CFI's come and go, and there's not much you can do about it. You could find a career CFI, but as a commercial prospect you are probably better served by being exposed to a variety of CFI's and a variety of techniques and ideas. Also the transient CFI's will move on to airlines, and then you will have some connections to smooth your next step.

The manager/owner/head honcho should be a pilot, preferably with airline or professional flying experience (above the CFI level). If the manager is a non-pilot, run away fast. Make sure you do a sit-down with this this person and chat him/her up a bit. Be very leary of a high-pressure sales pitch. You've been reading this board long enough to know what's up in the industry...if someone promises you a 777 job in 18 months, throw the BS flag and walk out.

Be sure to talk to some current students...approach them on the ramp BEFORE you approach the school. You will get your best intel here.

Also talk to a CFI or two if you can. Note: Foriegn CFI's are often indentured servants who are chained to the school by an H1B visa. Nothing against foriegners, but if the school resorts to H1B's to retain CFI's there may a reason that local CFI's won't stay.

Don't worry too much about the type of airplanes, their appearance, or their equipment. Fresh paint is usually lipstick on a pig...a shiny coat of paint on an old airplane is a LOT cheaper than actually reburishing the airplane. I'd rather the money was spent on avionics myself. Ask other students about airworthiness and dispatch reliability. A couple sims are really manadatory for a professional training course, PC-based sims are OK if they are certified and loggable as sim time (they will have actual controls and radio-heads in a cockpit-like enclosure).

Ground training is not too important for an educated and experienced professionl like yourself...it's not rocket science, you can just read the book. There is no reason for you (and five other studenst) to pay $80/hour each to hear a $10/hour 22 year old CFI read out of the book. You can probably see why owners/managers like ground training? :rolleyes:

Ideally you want a school that has ME airplane)s) available and teaches ME ratings. Smaller schools usually hire their own graduates, and you want a CFI job where you will be able to get your twin time eventually. Many schools don't do twins, and their CFI's have to either seek out an MEI job or buy some twin time after they get 1000 (or 600 or whatever) SE time.

Also if you can live at home, keep your day job, and work on ratings at the same time you will better off financially.

Wife caught me in bed w/ ATP literature...It's what your thinking...She threw away all my ATP literature , clothes, stickers, banners, decal kits,etc...

I may never recover...

-LAFF

Honestly,

This is what happened...Articles like this...http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com...keOrBreak.aspx

I decided to accept the reality of the situation. I'm retiring at 39. Why waste years making under 100K when I easily slide into a DoD / Fed Gov job with my security clearance , education , experience? I want to stay involved in aviation - I'm going to get my ratings slowly and CFI on the weekends...

-LAFF

Life's a *****

Thanks...Appreciate it...

You should get into the AF while you can...

You won't regret it.

No kidding...

Retirement for me is working 40+ hours a week and getting paid well while doing it...I'm a workaholic...I'll never stop and in the tech sector I can work till I die at my desk. I'm planning on doing just that...My co-workers however see eager to see me retire...I don't hold it against them - they want my desk / offfice.

_LAFF

Sure, but I assumed you were pursuing airline flying...if not then you have a lot more flexibility in your training.

R

FBO route
 

Very happy for you LAFF- let the savings begin. There's nothing like having a fistful of certs and feeling little or no pressure to make them pay for themselves. Talk about options, that's options.

I think Rickair hit all the important points (as usual). There are some other things to consider.
-Personality: Is it a pilot factory or down-home place where everybody knows your name? I've worked at both and each has its plusses and minuses. Find what fits.

-Costs: I don't care what anybody says, you don't need to do your private training in a brand-new SR-22. A well maintained 1970s 172 flies just as well as a brand new one and will cost at least $20 an hour less.

-Go with somebody that's been in business for a long time. The owner should be a pilot, but there should be somebody whos doing the books as well. You know the jokes about pilots and money...

-Busier the airport, longer time on the ground. Longer you're on the ground, more you spend.

-Last, but not least, find an instructor that you work well with. Also don't waste a rainy day. Go in and do some ground instruction. Your instructor will appreciate the pay on a rainy day and you'll be much better prepared for the upcoming flights as well as the practical exam which will in the long run save money.

LAFF, you got burned by one FBO but you'll find that there is a school out there that will cater to your needs, and you'll leave a happy customer. In many cases you'll be able to get your ratings for much less at a private school yet often can be had in a short duration like you could at an academy yet you won't have to sacrifice your life. A couple nights a week after work and a few hours on the weekend is much easier than living out of a hotel room for 6 months.

The best thing next to military training is find a good non-profit flying club. They offer a huge measure of freedom from the problems of greed and survival that affect FBOs. My limited experience with FBOs is that of having done a number of rental checkouts and a few rentals, and I think they are honest and well-meaning but they pad everything to make that all-important dollar.

Case in point, if you are current and have perhaps 450 logbook hours in a Skyhawk on record as well as a current medical and of course a clear FAA pilot license, your cheerful neighborhood FBO will still insist you need to go through a thorough checkout in their old 172. They will say something about insurance. And of course if you want to fly that 172N in IMC you need another full checkout for that. A complete checkout for a current 450-hour pilot to fly around the patch in clear weather and in an old 172? They want to make sure you still can fly a decent rectangular pattern after all that practice I guess.

On the other hand a flying club has no such requirement provided all the normal credentials are in order. Gee, so different.

Some problems I see with non-profit flying clubs on the other hand stem from exactly the reverse side of the profit motive: take the money out of the equation and things get sloppy. Planes do not get fixed quickly when they break, instructors start finding things to do on weekends, records get lost, and ground school classes are few and far between.

Still, having done most of my training with a university-run flying club I can vouch for the experience and there is no question it is the best deal in private aviation training. There is a sense of comraderie and the fleet is somewhat a family affair. What's more, graduates tend to claim their membership long after their ratings and certs are done.

They will stick around for the years between or after their own ratings to care and share with current students. In some flying clubs, such as the one I was in, there is an umambiguous push to reduce the FBO rental mentality. If it's truly a decent club they place barriers to this by enforcing mandatory free service and attendance at meetings.

Perhaps the worst problem with such organizations is simply getting in. You aren't going to get into most of them without an entry ticket of some kind. There's not much getting around this but there are some flying clubs that admit the general public.