Stoked27

I can find various sites on the internet that post overall pass rates for various things (including the written exams, broken down into each specific test), but none of it seems to identify if any of those failures were repeated by the same person.

I've seen random threads where folks state that the average person DOESN'T fail a checkride, and then some have stated that the average person fails two checkrides. Obviously no one quotes their source - and I'll continue to not quote sources because I don't remember where the threads are that I saw folks making those comments. That's beside the main point to my question though.

I haven't failed a checkride (yet, knock on wood), but I'm curious where everyone that has an opinion on this topic is getting their information. Is there something that the FAA publishes on per-pilot pass rates instead of overall per-test pass rates? Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place.

I'm not looking for a searchable database to look up anyone in particular, just data broken down & averaged on per pilot basis. More in relation to checkrides than written tests, but I'm curious about any information. Thanks in advance for any responses.

SonicFlyer

If they went to ATP it will be higher.... that school forces students to take checkrides even if they are not ready to.

rickair7777

There's a lot of different ways to slice statistics, but I would say the true average number of checkride failures for airline pilots is about 1-2, probably closer to one. That's just from talking to people.

But there's a lot of different angles to consider.

The average number is probably higher for regional pilots than for major new-hires... majors screen for that so new-hires will have fewer, while those who have more failures tend to get stuck at regionals or linger longer.

But among established airline pilots, the failure rate would go up over many years... take checkrides once or twice a year for 25 years and you might have a bad day at some point. But once they're off probation, major pilots don't really care either. Unless they bust the same ride multiple times it's not going to affect their career.

The real question is how many average failures for new-hires at whatever majors you're interested in?

DAL is going to be closer to zero than to one.

Legacies are mostly going to be lower than ULCC.

Also, what's a failure? Used to be a pink slip. Now they seem interested other training events as well.

Bottom line, if you want to work for a major 0-1 is best. Least harmful failures in order...


CFI Initial
PPL
Other part 61 rating checkride
Your first turbine checkride
91 turbine rating
135 turbine checkride
First 121 checkride
Other 121 checkrides

It also matters when it happened. If you have multiple failures spread out evenly over your aviation career, that's very bad. Shows you have low aptitude, can't/won't learn from mistakes, have poor study habits, or all of the above.

Stoked27

Thanks Rickair, that helps me wrap my mind around things a bit better. Ultimately what I was thinking about (which you seemed to gather from my question) was what it took to be competitive as a new hire at the Regionals and then the Majors. I was hoping to look at specific stats for average failure per pilot, but your point about how convoluted the statistics would get makes sense.

FlyingDawgg

Had an interview with a regional and they now even want to know if you've failed any stage checks.

BluePAX

I’ll bite. How do they plan on finding that info out if you don’t share?

rickair7777

That would be hit and miss. It's not covered by PRIA (yet), but that doesn't mean some helpful person at your old school won't give them what they ask for. Also at the schools I worked at years ago, they would simply mail your entire record in response to any PRIA requests. For those CFI's who had trained at the school as students, that included their student records.

Also, a savvy interviewer might spot it in your logbook, based on CFI comments. At the interview, they only need suspicion, not proof.

I would be very careful about lying, especially to an AA wholly-owned or any career-destination airline. If they find out years later, you'll still be fired immediately and there's not much recourse on that.

The next time there's a crash, PRIA will be expanded again. In the digital age, nothing ever goes away.

Bucknut

Logbooks are for a pilots own record and only endorsements should be entered in a logbook. There is no requirement for a logbok entry either pass or fail by a CFI or Check Airmen. I had a long talk with a CFI about this subject after he entered something in the effect of having to repeat a maneuver that happened during training (not a stage check). If your a student keep this in mind.

rickair7777

This is true but you can't fix it after the fact.

CFI's like to document stuff for their own protection.

Bahamasflyer

What is so different about DL vs the other legacies? Are they somehow different than AA, UAL, UPS, FDX or SWA?

I ask this as someone with a squeaky clean record (other than one simple speeding ticket) who wants to keep it that way.