dtm6582

Hi all,

I've lurked on this forum a few times over the last few years but this is my first post.

I'm sure the "I'm xyz years old and want to be a pilot" questions get asked a lot. I'm in that boat right now, mid-30's, somewhat recently divorced with no kids(very flexible on location), enough money in the bank to pay for training and to cover the tough years...and really thinking about it. Hopefully I'm in the right forum.

I've done quite a bit of reading (this forum is fantastic btw, thank you all for putting this information out there) but I'm left with a few questions about the lifestyle of a professional pilot and whether that would meld well with me. One of these runs the risk of being construed as a little..maybe...offensive to career pilots so I'm going to just get it out of the way first. Please understand, I mean no disrespect (I actually have a lot of respect for the folks flying our planes around, hence why I want to be one). I'm just trying to figure out if my personality would be a good fit for the profession.

1. I'm really worried about the Union/Seniority workplace and whether I would be a good fit for it. I've never worked a Union job. I've never worked in a position where advancements are based on seniority. I've been a lifelong sometimes overly ambitious worker (started working at about 12, worked full time through college, etc) and have advanced quite quickly in every workplace I've worked as a result of that. I'm currently a partner in a small IT consulting business. The translation here is "I have consistently outperformed my peers and been rewarded for it". I'm sure there are professional pilots out there with a similar background and I'm hoping one or two could chime in as to what it was like making a transition to this kind of work environment. Again, I don't mean this to say that pilots are not high achieving people, just that I'm more accustomed to industries that reward high achievers directly and usually more quickly than their peers.

2. Downtime. Another personality question. I like to stay busy and I really like things to be fast paced. I know there is some slower time during cruise where I'm sure you guys get bored, but I'm more worried about time/days away from home. Especially if you go to long haul (not likely for me given my age) it looks like it's pretty common to spend a few days off down route. What do you folks do to pass the time while you are away, waiting on flight delays, etc? Please be candid. Does this part of the job drive you crazy? Or is it not that bad, just have a fully charged tablet ready to go?

3. Non-personality question. Knowing what you know now, if you were me, 36, 0 flight hours thinking about tackling this profession how would you go about getting from 0 time to say the Regionals. Creative answers 100% welcome so please throw your thoughts at me.

Thanks in advance everyone. I appreciate you taking the time to read this and extend your thoughts.

Wink

I think you gotta pump the brakes a little bit and slow down man. First of all, with zero hours, have you gotten a medical certificate? Have you taken an intro flight and (and this is important) do you ENJOY flying? I would work on those 2 first because it's a long way ahead just to get to the regionals from where you are. Say about 1-2 years flight training and 1-2 building time to work for a regional, so realistically you will be starting at a regional around 40 years old. This industry can be incredibly volatile and nobody knows what the landscape will look like in 4 years. To answer your questions:

1. This is a weird question. Seniority lists exist for safety reasons so as to not let management persuade flight crews to take unsafe actions by holding promotions hostage. Unions exist to protect the profession from threats (scope/safety/security), negotiate collectively on behalf of the entire group, and represent the pilots during disciplinary investigations to ensure the process was followed accordingly. There are airlines or corporate outfits that are non-union or merit based upgrades/assignments; I would not want to work at any of them personally.

I'm not sure how you expect to outperform your peers as a pilot just because you have done so in a previous industry. How would you even quantify that? Crash less? Land "better"? There is one standard and your only obligation is to meet that standard or seek employment elsewhere. You COULD be promoted to the training department or management based on merit, if that is something you are interested in.

2. You can do whatever you want on your layovers, my only recommendation would be to avoid getting arrested because jail is bad In cruise, you're employer will outline duties required of you as well as those prohibited during flight. I usually just enjoy getting to know the person I am flying with.

3. I love my job. It would be nice to move out of the regionals to something bigger and better but if I got stuck here I would be completely content because I enjoy the airplane, the people I work with, and can make the best of wherever I end up. The age wouldn't deter me if I was you given I was absolutely sure this was what I wanted to do forever (and that includes considering all the good and the bad). As I said earlier, if I were you I would start by finding a local flight school and AME for the intro flight and medical cert.

Best of luck with your decision! Feel free to PM me if you have any questions

rickair7777

Don't loose any sleep over unions, many pilots are former white collar professionals or military officers (I for example am both), none of which tend to be union oriented. But they come around real fast once they see how it all works. Pilot union culture is not going to be oppressive or intrusive, nothing like blue collar union stereotypes.

They exist because there's simply no way to measure pilot "merit" at an airline. Without a seniority system, scheduling would be at the whim of managers, and you'd have to spend your days off brown-nosing in the CP's office if you wanted a holiday off. In fact that's how it was in the early days. You can't measure airline pilots on operational performance either... because that would encourage safety shortcuts.

Once you get a couple years at an airline you'll see why we have unions. Or you could try a non-union cargo airline or fractional, you'll get half the pay for twice the work. Literally.

Philosophically you have to accept that some aspects of career progression are seniority-driven and therefore you have to learn patience. But the best major jobs are intensely competitive so you'll have many years of striving to keep you busy before you get there.

In cruise flight you can read or talk, or look out the window. Technically you're not supposed to use PEDs for anything other than company material in flight. Technically.

Long haul flying goes senior for a reason (easy, pays better, more days off). If you'd rather do multiple short legs to stay busy you'll have NO problem at all cherry-picking those schedules... in fact guys will give them away

On layovers, sky's the limit, depending on where you are and for how long. I've even been known to hop a flight home if I have a long layover within 1000 miles of mi casa.

Most people aren't very creative, they get their instructor ratings and teach to 1500. That's usually the quickest and most economical path.

In today's climate it's also possible to get low-time flying gigs and avoid flight instruction. But major airlines do value the CFI ratings and experience... 90% of civilian applicants can check several instructor rating boxes. Do you want to be in the other 10%?

viper548

You can always volunteer to do union work. There are volunteer positions and elected positions. There's plenty to keep you busy.
Not everyone likes long haul. Even the major airlines have schedules that have 3-4 legs a day. Those tend to go junior. Some senior guys like them because they like staying busy.

dtm6582

Thanks everyone for taking the time to answer. I do appreciate it. I know my initial post was pretty vague so I will add a little more info. I've flown in small planes probably half a dozen times. My ex-wife's Uncle is a GA pilot and has flown for many years. He took me on my first flight about 5 years ago and it quickly turned into a flying lesson. I also fell completely in love with it (both the 'feel' side and the technical side/airport operations, I have so many questions on both of these I'm tempted to do the training just to get them answered). A client/friend also has taken me several times. He's GA as well. Our last flight he obviously did most of the flying but let me play with the NAV equipment (GNS 750), practice turns while holding altitude, practice trimming the aircraft (trickier than I thought it would be). Working on my scan. Again, it turned into an informal lesson. While GA, this was flying out of a very busy GA airport, one of the busiest in the country I believe.

I've also been mildly addicted to flight simulation for about 5 years. Please note, I have no delusions that this has made me capable of flying. 5 minutes at the controls of a real airplane made that pretty clear. But I'm familiar with the basics of charts (not that I could properly use them). VORs and radials (theory, couldn't actually flight plan or navigate using them) SIDs/STARS, airspace around airports. VFR/IFR. I can get a little meaningful info out of METARS. Traffic patterns. There's a ton I don't know but I'm not wading in totally blind either.

I think at this point that if I was flying with a GA pilot and he/she became incapacitated I could get us back on the ground alive. The insurance company could quite easily become the owner of a plane though.

I've actually been planning for some time to get my PPL purely for the enjoyment of flying. Unfortunately the cost of flying as a hobby has pretty much scared me away, at least for now.

Yeah, it is a weird question. I struggled with how to ask it, mainly because of this type of response. I'm not really asking why pilots use a seniority system. Like you said, you either meet the requirements to fly safely or you don't. It's more a question of, for those who transitioned from a more traditional corporate job into something based on seniority, did that change affect you? Was it hard to adjust going from performance based pay and promotions to seniority based pay and promotions? I guess that's probably how I should have phrased the question to begin with.

DontLookDown

There’s still opportunities to outwork your peers.

Volunteer for OT and you’ll acquire the hours necessary for upgrades quicker. Maintain a perfect safety/training record and take on additional duties and you’ll get calls from a major quicker.

The aviation world can use the seniority system because you only have two tiers of performance standards, “good” or “better than good.” Anything less than that will not pass the interviews, training and regular checkrides that you’re subjected too. Regular desk jobs have annual reviews that don’t usually include “perform your required job functions for me right now and if you stumble on anything you’re fired.”

rickair7777

No, I knew what I had to do to get a major job, and did it. It was exactly what I expected, except it took at 5-8 years longer than I expected. Considering the recession and that the retirement age unexpectedly increased by five years along the way, my timeline was about right.

Now instead of having to struggle with factors beyond my control, office politics and working when I don't want to be working in order to *hopefully* get a raise or bonus, I can just mark the calendar and wait for the raise and bonuses to come to me. If I'm motivated I can try to go the extra mile and maybe improve operational performance and customer satisfaction... that does enhance one's job satisfaction, and might even influence the bonuses.

As others mentioned, there is plenty of union volunteer work available if you need something work-related. The vast majority of that is helping other pilots, safety, etc. The actual leg-breaking is handled by the very small contingent of ex green berets and navy SEALs you find at any airline.

Or work in your old field part-time if it's compatible, plenty of pilots have part-time gigs. Bonus to have something to readily fall back on if you have a medical issue.