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Old 02-02-2019, 02:31 PM   #1  
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Default 61.160 restricted ATP

Asking for help clarifying a reg

61.160 states that in order to get a restricted ATP at 21 years old and 1000 hours you need

1. Bachelors in aviation
2. 60 credit hours in aviation classes
3. Part 141 flight training and ground training
4. Present official transcripts

So my question is this. If you complete your training in high school part 61 and then major in aviation at college, are you allowed to get the restricted ATP?
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Old 02-02-2019, 02:34 PM   #2  
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Any Part 141 university will require a minimum number of certificates and ratings be completed in their program. Some won’t let you in if you have more than a Private.


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Old 02-02-2019, 03:53 PM   #3  
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Originally Posted by Kstoves View Post
Asking for help clarifying a reg

61.160 states that in order to get a restricted ATP at 21 years old and 1000 hours you need

1. Bachelors in aviation
2. 60 credit hours in aviation classes
3. Part 141 flight training and ground training
4. Present official transcripts

So my question is this. If you complete your training in high school part 61 and then major in aviation at college, are you allowed to get the restricted ATP?
This is the regulation, it's 61.160:

Quote:
(b) A person may apply for an airline transport pilot certificate with an airplane category multiengine class rating or an airline transport pilot certificate concurrently with an airplane type rating with a minimum of 1,000 hours of total time as a pilot if the person:

(1) Holds a Bachelor's degree with an aviation major from an institution of higher education, as defined in §61.1, that has been issued a letter of authorization by the Administrator under §61.169;

(2) Completes 60 semester credit hours of aviation and aviation-related coursework that has been recognized by the Administrator as coursework designed to improve and enhance the knowledge and skills of a person seeking a career as a professional pilot;

(3) Holds a commercial pilot certificate with an airplane category and instrument rating if:

(i) The required ground training was completed as part of an approved part 141 curriculum at the institution of higher education; and

(ii) The required flight training was completed as part of an approved part 141 curriculum at the institution of higher education or at a part 141 pilot school that has a training agreement under §141.26 of this chapter with the institution of higher education; and

(4) Presents official transcripts or other documentation acceptable to the Administrator from the institution of higher education certifying that the graduate has satisfied the requirements in paragraphs (b)(1) through (3) of this section.
The details are important. It's not just any school, they have to have a letter from the FAA that finds their curriculum teaches the learning material that is required for the reduction. It's not just any part 141 training school, they have to be part of the college or have an agreement with the college as stated above.

The requirements are in reference to a commercial certificate, so you could get your private certificate elsewhere, but under this regulation, you must get your commercial certificate at the institution of higher learning.
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Old 02-02-2019, 08:46 PM   #4  
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To simplify what the people above me said:

https://www.faa.gov/pilots/training/...ority_List.pdf

That is the list to the FAA approved schools. Also, from my understanding, most schools allow you to apply your certs/ratings as credit hours toward your degree. So in a way, the anwer to your question is yes.

Call and verify with the specific school you’re interested in of course.
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Old 02-03-2019, 05:47 AM   #5  
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Jamesnobrakes knows his business (it’s his job)
If you have an aviation degree, the item of importance that you did your flight training at that school. If you did not, no restricted ATP for you.
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Old 02-03-2019, 07:02 AM   #6  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moe96 View Post
To simplify what the people above me said:

https://www.faa.gov/pilots/training/...ority_List.pdf

That is the list to the FAA approved schools. Also, from my understanding, most schools allow you to apply your certs/ratings as credit hours toward your degree. So in a way, the anwer to your question is yes.
Incorrect, the answer is actually "No".

As JNB pointed out, in addition to completing the degree with that school (which might involved transfer credits or credits for "life experience" such as earned ratings), in order to be R-ATP eligible you must also graduate that school's flight training program.

While a 141 program might grant some credit for previous training in a 141 program, you will have to do the bulk of the commercial training in that program to graduate under 141 (required for R-ATP). For someone who already has ratings that would be a pointless waste of time and money. Much faster and cheaper just to fly the extra 500 hours as a CFI, etc.
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Old 02-03-2019, 10:13 AM   #7  
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Plus, with a "pilot shortage", so many places are hurting for instructors just as much as airlines are hurting for pilots, so making your 1500 hours is a snap, so to say. When it's the other way around, it can be a long arduous journey to get your 1500 and especially the XC time, but then when that's the case, the rate of hiring was so slow that it also didn't matter, unless you had thousands and thousands of hours, they weren't looking at you anyway.
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Old 02-03-2019, 01:13 PM   #8  
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Plus, with a "pilot shortage", so many places are hurting for instructors just as much as airlines are hurting for pilots, so making your 1500 hours is a snap, so to say. When it's the other way around, it can be a long arduous journey to get your 1500 and especially the XC time, but then when that's the case, the rate of hiring was so slow that it also didn't matter, unless you had thousands and thousands of hours, they weren't looking at you anyway.
I agree with getting an extra 500 hours not being a huge deal.

My concern would be that a 17 year old kid starting flight training could be shooting himself in the foot by delaying his ATP two years. Having 1500 hours at age 21 won’t help if you need to wait until 23 to take your test.

It sounds like getting a PPL at that age should be fine, but some thought should be given to the pros vs cons of doing training in excess of that.
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Old 02-04-2019, 07:23 AM   #9  
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Originally Posted by Kstoves View Post
I agree with getting an extra 500 hours not being a huge deal.

My concern would be that a 17 year old kid starting flight training could be shooting himself in the foot by delaying his ATP two years. Having 1500 hours at age 21 won’t help if you need to wait until 23 to take your test.

It sounds like getting a PPL at that age should be fine, but some thought should be given to the pros vs cons of doing training in excess of that.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you can get an R-ATP at age 21 with 1500 hours (and 200 vice 500 XC). No 141 or avaition university required.


61.153(a)(2) For an airline transport pilot certificate obtained under the aeronautical experience requirements of §61.160, be at least 21 years of age.


The relevant paragraph of 61.153 is...

(f) A person who has 1,500 hours total time as a pilot, 200 hours of cross-country flight time, and otherwise meets the aeronautical experience requirements of §61.159 may apply for an airline transport pilot certificate under this section.
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Old 02-22-2019, 11:42 AM   #10  
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Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you can get an R-ATP at age 21 with 1500 hours (and 200 vice 500 XC). No 141 or avaition university required.


61.153(a)(2) For an airline transport pilot certificate obtained under the aeronautical experience requirements of §61.160, be at least 21 years of age.


The relevant paragraph of 61.153 is...

(f) A person who has 1,500 hours total time as a pilot, 200 hours of cross-country flight time, and otherwise meets the aeronautical experience requirements of §61.159 may apply for an airline transport pilot certificate under this section.

That's correct, I'm 18 now with private and instrument part 61 and I will get a restricted ATP at 1500 hours when I'm 21 years old no part 141 and the degree I am doing is unrelated.
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