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Old 03-28-2019, 05:36 PM   #51  
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Default Mid-Life @38?

You guys...…! Talking about being mid-life at age 38 or 40. LOL! I'm doing this at 57! I'm a little ahead of you on hours, spent 30 yrs getting near ATP mins. But hey, kids are grown, wife going back to work, FO pay rates reasonable, Class I in hand.......we shall soon find out if I can pass an interview at a regional.
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Old 03-28-2019, 06:00 PM   #52  
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Originally Posted by DBono View Post
You guys...…! Talking about being mid-life at age 38 or 40. LOL! I'm doing this at 57! I'm a little ahead of you on hours, spent 30 yrs getting near ATP mins. But hey, kids are grown, wife going back to work, FO pay rates reasonable, Class I in hand.......we shall soon find out if I can pass an interview at a regional.
Good on ya...I'm coming up behind you at 50, and with a bit over 400hrs comm single/multi. I'll need to build time over the next year but I think this is a good time for us who got sidetracked in life.

Cheers
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Old 03-28-2019, 06:22 PM   #53  
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Originally Posted by lordhux View Post
are you attending American Flyers or ATP? I heard ATP is sh*tty, but pretty much the same as any others. How's your experience with American Flyers?
Neither. I've heard that ATP just churns you out as fast as possible, regardless of whether you are ready or not. Probably not for everyone, also hyper expensive.

Quote:
You guys...…! Talking about being mid-life at age 38 or 40. LOL! I'm doing this at 57!
Hey good on you. I don't think I'd make the financial commitment to get started from scratch at your age, but if you've already got hours... have at it. 8 years is not a lot of time to build a career before mandatory retirement hits.
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Old 03-28-2019, 06:41 PM   #54  
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There’ll never be a pilot shortage as long as people come out of the woodwork starting flying in middle age.

GF
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Old 03-29-2019, 06:58 AM   #55  
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Default What I wish I considered

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Originally Posted by JayMahon View Post
Expound on this please.

At the moment I'm looking at about a year and a half worth of low income (35k) working as a CFI before I'm at the hours to get an interview with a Regional Carrier. We've budgeted for this level of income before and will make ends meet (no debt, humble lifestyle in a rural area of Virginia). But this only addresses the income concerns, what other concerns should I be aware of that could trash my family?
I am currently sitting at 1400 hours. I am 48 with a wife and two small children. We (as a family) decided to pursue this dream in 2016 when the opportunity presented itself. Here are the things I wish I knew then that I know now.
1) One of the biggest considerations when choosing a flight school should be weather. NOT PAY, or promises made by the management about how much flying you will do. Sounds like a given but believe me seriously research. Where is the Best Weather for Flight Training (In the United States) - JasonBlair.net
We started in PHL area because 1) I was offered 35/hr, and 2) that is where my wife is from and I planned on working as much as possible so we wanted to have a support network. What I learned... 35/hr is zero if your not flying! Wind was a big issue. Last year was one of the worst for weather the school had ever had. Maybe a fluke but, looking at the website I just posted, if I had research more I would have made a different decision. 5 months in I was averaging 45 hours a month. At that rate it would take me about two more years to finish. I ended up going to another state while my family stayed in PA so I could actually GET hours. I leave for 10 days and come home for 4 and repeat. I have been doing this for 11 months. It really takes a toll on you and your family. Had we known we would have moved as a family together to Arizona or Florida.

2) You likely will not even make 35k while flight training. We made about 26k average- no benefits. You are away from the family ALL day (9 am-9 pm is not rare), but if you are hourly you do not get paid for all those hours. Paperwork, prep, planning, meetings... none of that was paid. Figure 1/3 your hours are ground school, the 1/3 are actual flying, 1/3 administrative. SIM and ground school hours do not count when logging time. Oh and don't forget the student cancellations... has happened three times already this week. That's at least 5 hours of prepared flight time that was cancelled.

3) YOU MADE IT. You have offers from three regionals, less than 100 hours to go. YES! End is in sight. NOPE. Will you be moving again to be in base? Will you be taking a job for pay (60k) and best contract where you will move to PIC much more slowly or take the the job that will get you PIC the fastest but pay is closer to 40K? If goal is to get 1000 PIC to get consideration at a major - you have to consider long range goal. Tough considerations when you have a family and have already burned through 80k of savings to get to a regional. Do a budget. Based on my research using info on this site and the hourly rate/bonus (these are just estimates please don't quote me):
Low end Airline 1 Pay scale:
47k yr 1
56k yr 2 (With upgrade at 18 months)
68k yr 3 as PIC
72k yr 4- 1000 PIC time- start applying to majors
76k yr 5- applying to majors

High end Airline 2 Pay scale:
63k yr 1
70k yr 2
75 yr 3 (with upgrade at 24 months)
85k yr 4
90k yr 5- 1000 PIC time- start applying to majors

Also consider if you are moving to a base for QOL: what is the tax rate where you plan to live, and can you hold that base as a Captain, and are there any LLC or Legacy carriers there to avoid having to move again in 5 years?

All in all, this is my dream. My wife is amazing and has supported this all the way. She has advanced degrees but with everything going on with me she can't take on a position with the responsibility she used to have at her former position. This has taken a huge toll both financially and emotionally. My wife works part time now but we are considering moving again so she has to plan that and be the primary parent for two small children and all that goes with that.

Basically you need to understand this is not a year and a half sacrifice. Or at least it is not for us. It will be at least five-seven years from the start of this until we are even close to financial stability (based on my salary alone). From training through year 5 of regional life we will have burned through about 200k of our savings IF my wife does not go back to work full time. (which she will likely as soon as we move to a new base)
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Old 03-29-2019, 08:11 AM   #56  
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I think my estimated numbers above were on the high side. I also shouldn't have included per diem in the numbers. So consider that in your calculations.

Good luck! Its a fun journey.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PosNhold View Post
I am currently sitting at 1400 hours. I am 48 with a wife and two small children. We (as a family) decided to pursue this dream in 2016 when the opportunity presented itself. Here are the things I wish I knew then that I know now.
1) One of the biggest considerations when choosing a flight school should be weather. NOT PAY, or promises made by the management about how much flying you will do. Sounds like a given but believe me seriously research. Where is the Best Weather for Flight Training (In the United States) - JasonBlair.net
We started in PHL area because 1) I was offered 35/hr, and 2) that is where my wife is from and I planned on working as much as possible so we wanted to have a support network. What I learned... 35/hr is zero if your not flying! Wind was a big issue. Last year was one of the worst for weather the school had ever had. Maybe a fluke but, looking at the website I just posted, if I had research more I would have made a different decision. 5 months in I was averaging 45 hours a month. At that rate it would take me about two more years to finish. I ended up going to another state while my family stayed in PA so I could actually GET hours. I leave for 10 days and come home for 4 and repeat. I have been doing this for 11 months. It really takes a toll on you and your family. Had we known we would have moved as a family together to Arizona or Florida.

2) You likely will not even make 35k while flight training. We made about 26k average- no benefits. You are away from the family ALL day (9 am-9 pm is not rare), but if you are hourly you do not get paid for all those hours. Paperwork, prep, planning, meetings... none of that was paid. Figure 1/3 your hours are ground school, the 1/3 are actual flying, 1/3 administrative. SIM and ground school hours do not count when logging time. Oh and don't forget the student cancellations... has happened three times already this week. That's at least 5 hours of prepared flight time that was cancelled.

3) YOU MADE IT. You have offers from three regionals, less than 100 hours to go. YES! End is in sight. NOPE. Will you be moving again to be in base? Will you be taking a job for pay (60k) and best contract where you will move to PIC much more slowly or take the the job that will get you PIC the fastest but pay is closer to 40K? If goal is to get 1000 PIC to get consideration at a major - you have to consider long range goal. Tough considerations when you have a family and have already burned through 80k of savings to get to a regional. Do a budget. Based on my research using info on this site and the hourly rate/bonus (these are just estimates please don't quote me):
Low end Airline 1 Pay scale:
47k yr 1
56k yr 2 (With upgrade at 18 months)
68k yr 3 as PIC
72k yr 4- 1000 PIC time- start applying to majors
76k yr 5- applying to majors

High end Airline 2 Pay scale:
63k yr 1
70k yr 2
75 yr 3 (with upgrade at 24 months)
85k yr 4
90k yr 5- 1000 PIC time- start applying to majors

Also consider if you are moving to a base for QOL: what is the tax rate where you plan to live, and can you hold that base as a Captain, and are there any LLC or Legacy carriers there to avoid having to move again in 5 years?

All in all, this is my dream. My wife is amazing and has supported this all the way. She has advanced degrees but with everything going on with me she can't take on a position with the responsibility she used to have at her former position. This has taken a huge toll both financially and emotionally. My wife works part time now but we are considering moving again so she has to plan that and be the primary parent for two small children and all that goes with that.

Basically you need to understand this is not a year and a half sacrifice. Or at least it is not for us. It will be at least five-seven years from the start of this until we are even close to financial stability (based on my salary alone). From training through year 5 of regional life we will have burned through about 200k of our savings IF my wife does not go back to work full time. (which she will likely as soon as we move to a new base)
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Old 03-30-2019, 04:48 AM   #57  
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amazing, easiest time to become a airline pilot in over 50 years. Enjoy it.
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Old 04-01-2019, 10:20 AM   #58  
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amazing, easiest time to become a airline pilot in over 50 years. Enjoy it.
how long would it last? It takes about 2-3 years to produce one recruit.
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Old 04-02-2019, 05:35 AM   #59  
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Hey y'all,

Been trying to decide on this career for a while now, and have about 35 hours total time. I love flying but was always hesitant to jump head first into this career

I am turning 24 this week and work in the insurance industry. Looking to make a change. I have a bachelors degree from a top tier university that I received in four years and have enough money to pay for all of my ratings, without having to take a loan.

For those of you veteran pilots, if I were your son would you encourage me to go into this? Is it still a good time to get in, even though I wouldn't likely be at a major for 5-10 years? While I know that decision is ultimately mine, I really don't know too many pilots to ask from. Other than my CFI's, of course, but they haven't flown for the airlines yet. Thanks

- Alex
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Old 04-02-2019, 06:33 AM   #60  
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Originally Posted by acgreen95 View Post
Hey y'all,

Been trying to decide on this career for a while now, and have about 35 hours total time. I love flying but was always hesitant to jump head first into this career

I am turning 24 this week and work in the insurance industry. Looking to make a change. I have a bachelors degree from a top tier university that I received in four years and have enough money to pay for all of my ratings, without having to take a loan.

For those of you veteran pilots, if I were your son would you encourage me to go into this? Is it still a good time to get in, even though I wouldn't likely be at a major for 5-10 years? While I know that decision is ultimately mine, I really don't know too many pilots to ask from. Other than my CFI's, of course, but they haven't flown for the airlines yet. Thanks

- Alex
Most definitely I'd jump into it now, especially at your age! But don't delay, since seniority is everything.
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