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Mid-life Career Change
Hey all. I'm a 38 y/o who has spent the last 20 years managing supply chain and financial companies. I flew a lot back in high school (pre-9/11). Loved it. Sat in a flight simulator at a virtual reality store and the itch came back. Went up in a Piper Cherokee (low wing) and the addiction is strong, also the GPS technology feels like cheating.
I just drew the short straw and my branch is being closed due to lease conflict with the landlord. The financial industry is shrinking as more and more content is being offered online and my company has no open positions for me to fill. So I had been wrestling with the thought of dropping $$ into my flight training to cert up and really do flying full time. I've got a local flight school that can get me up through MEI and there is a large college nearby with a large aviation program looking for CFIs. I'm thinking this could be a great launch pad to a regional. I've got no illusions that I'm coming at this a bit late in life. I don't need to fly a wide body as a captain making the big bucks. I'm in fantastic health, so no issues getting a 1st class medical. I know money will be tight, but the hiring environment is so much different than what I remember from the late 90s. CFIs make more than fast food wages. Regionals pay their captains 6 figures. Many regionals can promote you from FO to Captain in just a year or two. So for those currently training and those who are living the life, what's the weather like? What things might I be missing? You're advice and feedback are welcome. It's actually been reading over these forums for the past month and doing a metric TON of research in challenging my assumptions that has gotten me to this point. So, thank you all for the information you post on this forum and website. It's been extremely helpful. |
Plenty of people your age and older do it, and there has really never been a better time, ever, due to massive looming retirements at the big three.
So really it comes down to your finances vs. your lifestyle, how much you have saved, and how much you can adjust the lifestyle if needed. Also it will be easier if you can relocate several times over the next five years but not required, many pilots commute. So probably the finances, spouse (if any), and kids (if any) are the key factors to consider. You should be earning $100K+ after you upgrade at a regional in five years (or even less if you hustle), and then $200K+ at a major once you get hired. Also having a college degree and a clean background are important. Obviously a criminal record will be a big problem, but even a DUI or a lot of moving violations can slow down or limit your progression. Also recall that any big economic turmoil (or black swan event) could mess up the industry, although the large number of retirements should mitigate the career damage over time as far as a pilot is concerned. |
Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 2757237)
Plenty of people your age and older do it, and there has really never been a better time, ever, due to massive looming retirements at the big three.
So really it comes down to your finances vs. your lifestyle, how much you have saved, and how much you can adjust the lifestyle if needed. Also it will be easier if you can relocate several times over the next five years but not required, many pilots commute. So probably the finances, spouse (if any), and kids (if any) are the key factors to consider. You should be earning $100K+ after you upgrade at a regional in five years (or even less if you hustle), and then $200K+ at a major once you get hired. Also having a college degree and a clean background are important. Obviously a criminal record will be a big problem, but even a DUI or a lot of moving violations can slow down or limit your progression. Also recall that any big economic turmoil (or black swan event) could mess up the industry, although the large number of retirements should mitigate the career damage over time as far as a pilot is concerned. I've hustled my whole life. I don't see any reason why that would change just because I'm working in an office with a pretty view. Work is still work. I appreciate your feedback and looking out for some of the common obstacles that trip up prospective pilots. Any other insights? Any other dark clouds on the horizon I'm not seeing? |
Originally Posted by JayMahon
(Post 2757251)
I'm a paladin. No moving violations, no DUI, no criminal. Got a wife and kids, we've done the career change struggle before and managed fine. I am aware of the damage a black swan event or economic downturn could have on the industry, but I have no control over those factors. They tend to also impact other industries as well. As with much of life, there are no guarantees... all we can do is make the best decision we can with the information at hand and try not to over leverage ourselves into a dangerous position. You are right though... and it remains a concern. I'm dropping some serious money into a future that could vanish before I get my hands around it.
I've hustled my whole life. I don't see any reason why that would change just because I'm working in an office with a pretty view. Work is still work. I appreciate your feedback and looking out for some of the common obstacles that trip up prospective pilots. Any other insights? Any other dark clouds on the horizon I'm not seeing? |
Originally Posted by wrxpilot
(Post 2757350)
I would just add make sure you get a first class medical (with EKG) to make sure there’s nothing surprising with your health.
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You will trash your family in the process. Get a job and take care of business.
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Originally Posted by kevbo
(Post 2757357)
You will trash your family in the process. Get a job and take care of business.
At the moment I'm looking at about a year and a half worth of low income (35k) working as a CFI before I'm at the hours to get an interview with a Regional Carrier. We've budgeted for this level of income before and will make ends meet (no debt, humble lifestyle in a rural area of Virginia). But this only addresses the income concerns, what other concerns should I be aware of that could trash my family? |
Originally Posted by JayMahon
(Post 2757365)
Expound on this please.
At the moment I'm looking at about a year and a half worth of low income (35k) working as a CFI before I'm at the hours to get an interview with a Regional Carrier. We've budgeted for this level of income before and will make ends meet (no debt, humble lifestyle in a rural area of Virginia). But this only addresses the income concerns, what other concerns should I be aware of that could trash my family? |
Originally Posted by JayMahon
(Post 2757351)
That's a great idea. Any idea how much more expensive a first class medical is compared to a 3rd class medical?
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Originally Posted by wrxpilot
(Post 2757389)
Look at the post history of that person. To say they are extremely negative is an understatement. I used to work as an engineer and made a career change to aviation when I was 27. My timing was terrible, as I had to deal with the age 65 rule change, Great Recession, etc. But it’s still be fun and now I’m around 40, working for the best airline in the world flying a 767. I get lots of time off, travel the world, and make a fantastic income.
Anywhere from $100-200. Money well spent though. |
Originally Posted by JayMahon
(Post 2757351)
That's a great idea. Any idea how much more expensive a first class medical is compared to a 3rd class medical?
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Originally Posted by JayMahon
(Post 2757174)
I don't need to fly a wide body as a captain making the big bucks.
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Originally Posted by JayMahon
(Post 2757365)
Expound on this please.
At the moment I'm looking at about a year and a half worth of low income (35k) working as a CFI before I'm at the hours to get an interview with a Regional Carrier. We've budgeted for this level of income before and will make ends meet (no debt, humble lifestyle in a rural area of Virginia). But this only addresses the income concerns, what other concerns should I be aware of that could trash my family? His attitudes are informed by his personal experiences and own personality. But there's a grain of truth there... someone who does not have the aptitude will struggle, possibly fail, and will not make it to the higher echelons. There are some reasonably accurate predictors of success, if I had your resume and hobbies/interests I could make a prediction. If I talked to you in person, I could make an even better prediction. But that's not foolproof and there's only way to know for sure.... Also the entry-level can be hard on the family, especially if you have to commute to keep them anchored. Best to drive to work, or have a short, easy commute. |
Originally Posted by JohnBurke
(Post 2757469)
If it helps, there are plenty of wide body captain's making peanuts.
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Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 2757481)
Kevbo is one of our resident "glass is almost empty" chicken-littles.
His attitudes are informed by his personal experiences and own personality. But there's a grain of truth there... someone who does not have the aptitude will struggle, possibly fail, and will not make it to the higher echelons. There are some reasonably accurate predictors of success, if I had your resume and hobbies/interests I could make a prediction. If I talked to you in person, I could make an even better prediction. But that's not foolproof and there's only way to know for sure.... Also the entry-level can be hard on the family, especially if you have to commute to keep them anchored. Best to drive to work, or have a short, easy commute. |
Originally Posted by JayMahon
(Post 2757516)
Who are they flying for?
The operators that pay peanuts.' Not everybody wins the lottery. |
Originally Posted by JohnBurke
(Post 2757930)
For whom are they flying.
The operators that pay peanuts.' Not everybody wins the lottery. |
Originally Posted by hindsight2020
(Post 2757966)
Excatly. But but but....optimism bias says that never happens to ME, only to YOU. This is why these career change questions are insufferable. Nobody ever listens to nuance.
How does it happen? What keeps the pilot there instead of taking his experience elsewhere? Seniority? Lack of desire to fly in overseas environments that pay well for this level of experience? Give me some examples to deflate the optimism. That's SPECIFICALLY why I posted. I've read though these forums voraciously over the past few weeks collecting information. I'm reaching out to fill in the gaps and check the conclusions I've come to. |
Overseas may not be the panacea you think.
Having a fist full of ratings and certificate doesn't necessarily mean that you get to write your own ticket. By and large, pilots are a dime a dozen, despite the feeding frenzy at the bottom rungs. |
Originally Posted by JayMahon
(Post 2757979)
I'm LOOKING for dark clouds. So, some pilots get stuck with an operator that pays peanuts to fly the big boys. Sounds like a bad deal.
How does it happen? What keeps the pilot there instead of taking his experience elsewhere? Seniority? Lack of desire to fly in overseas environments that pay well for this level of experience? Give me some examples to deflate the optimism. That's SPECIFICALLY why I posted. I've read though these forums voraciously over the past few weeks collecting information. I'm reaching out to fill in the gaps and check the conclusions I've come to. You make a mistake, have a FAA action against you. You fail check rides, your Captain makes a mistake you don't catch. You have a simple accident and the CVR confirms you didn't write up the problem when you became aware of it. Now you are someone who competes with others who don't have these issues. You are already middle aged. Becoming a senior wide body captain at the best paying airlines may not be a option for you based on the seniority system. How many of those jobs are there anyway? You make a career sacrifice to help the family instead of a divorce. The highest paying airlines may not want to hire you. They have thousands of applicants. Why hire you over every single military pilot or every single pilot currently at the regional with more experience and ability. The shortage or at least higher demand is in the lower paying positions. These are often contract carriers who do not own any flying and have contracts whipsawed. The low paying airline may be your only employment opportunity., remember there are pilot in pilot training every year wanting to take your job for much less money. The economy tanks again. Cabotage is allowed in the USA. Flags of convince become common. Unions weaken at the airlines due to regulatory actions. Ok i gotta stop I'm depressed!!! It can certainly be a good job. But you said to mention some downside. Good luck |
Originally Posted by JayMahon
(Post 2757979)
I'm LOOKING for dark clouds. So, some pilots get stuck with an operator that pays peanuts to fly the big boys. Sounds like a bad deal.
How does it happen? Regional: If you get stuck or decide to stay, you can can make an adequate living by white collar profession standards. In the olds days that was $100K, today it's $150K+, but you'll have to put in your time, ten+ years. There are downsides to the regional industry, they are subcontractors and the contracts can dry up on a whim. Schedules usually suck for all but the most senior (nature of the beast, six legs/day, with lots of unpaid time cooling your heels between flights). Bases close, and companies close. Don't need a degree. LCC: More money and stability than regionals. Maybe better schedules, maybe not. Eventually you will make more money than your average white-collar peers (not counting doctors, law firm partners, etc). ACMI/Heavy Cargo: Better money than regionals, often faster money than LCC's. Downside is schedules... typical three on, two off. That's weeks. You'll notice your kids have gotten bigger when you return from a trip. Trips are long-haul, so lots of circadian disruption. Also *some* of these have bad reps for MX (some have good reps, just not as consistent as 121 pax). May offer perks like home basing, so you can live where you want without worrying about a commute. Pay is variable, some small-town mom-and-pop outfits may pay less than regionals, but the folks who work there typically have their reasons. Many will pay better than what your your average white-collar peers make (not counting doctors, law firm partners, etc). Big Six (DL/UA/AA/SWA/FDX/UPS): They will get you to $200K real quick. Top may be as high as $900K in extreme cases. FO's make $200-300K+, most CA's $350-500K. Great schedules in general, or at least flexibility (compared to the rest of the industry). Perks like 16% 401k direct contribution, a couple still have DB retirements. Of course everybody wants to work at one of these. Hawaiian and Alaska are legacies, but have geographic niches, good places to work, but somewhere between LCC and big six.
Originally Posted by JayMahon
(Post 2757979)
What keeps the pilot there instead of taking his experience elsewhere? Seniority? Lack of desire to fly in overseas environments that pay well for this level of experience?
Seniority: If you get 8-10 years into a regional, it will be a pay and QOL cut initially (plus risk on probation year). Referred to as "Golden Handcuffs". Even worse as ACMI/LCC. Also geographic uncertaintity... might get assigned to a plane which is based only on the other side of the country, typically with a two-year seat-lock. Hard for a family man, even with a big payoff downrange, you can never replace those years with your kids. Big Six preferences: They seem to prefer folks who are motivated and moving along. A pilot who has plateaued as a regional CA, or an FO or even CA at LCC may get passed over in favor of younger folks who are still in ladder climbing mode. Also everybody wants to work here, so they can be picky... you'll hear the term "brass ring". You can predict if someone will NOT get called, based on their background (criminal issues, training busts, employment issues, "presentability". But if you have ten guys who have the right (civilian) background, maybe three will get called and it's hard to figure out which three it's going to be. Hence the lottery/brass ring analogies. It can even be hard to get a call from a LCC. These number should improve temporarily between now and about 2025, then start trending back to normal. Assuming good pilot record, "whole person" credentials also weigh heavily.
Originally Posted by JayMahon
(Post 2757979)
Give me some examples to deflate the optimism. That's SPECIFICALLY why I posted. I've read though these forums voraciously over the past few weeks collecting information. I'm reaching out to fill in the gaps and check the conclusions I've come to.
There are also folks who got a blackmark along the way, who would otherwise have progressed. You can 100% avoid DUI's but sometimes employment or training issues are hard to avoid (you should make every effort of course...) |
Originally Posted by Airbum
(Post 2758060)
Many things will be out of your control on a journey such as this. Look at the number of times throughout history that airlines have disappeared or gone bankrupt. If you're a finance guy it should be easy. Remember your job is not portable from employer to employer.
You make a mistake, have a FAA action against you. You fail check rides, your Captain makes a mistake you don't catch. You have a simple accident and the CVR confirms you didn't write up the problem when you became aware of it. Now you are someone who competes with others who don't have these issues. You are already middle aged. Becoming a senior wide body captain at the best paying airlines may not be a option for you based on the seniority system. How many of those jobs are there anyway? You make a career sacrifice to help the family instead of a divorce. The highest paying airlines may not want to hire you. They have thousands of applicants. Why hire you over every single military pilot or every single pilot currently at the regional with more experience and ability. The shortage or at least higher demand is in the lower paying positions. These are often contract carriers who do not own any flying and have contracts whipsawed. The low paying airline may be your only employment opportunity., remember there are pilot in pilot training every year wanting to take your job for much less money. The economy tanks again. Cabotage is allowed in the USA. Flags of convince become common. Unions weaken at the airlines due to regulatory actions. Ok i gotta stop I'm depressed!!! It can certainly be a good job. But you said to mention some downside. Good luck The economy tanking impacts lots of other industries aside from just aviation. I can't control those larger patterns but I hope that aviation in general has a better opportunity to offer than the work I've been doing thus far. Is there any real chance of broad cabotage being allowed in the US? I haven't come across this other than just general fear mongering. Overall, not that depressing. Got any other dark clouds? Thanks! -Jay |
Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 2758097)
Historically there have ALWAYS been far more qualified professional pilots than top jobs. Essentially four tiers in the airlines, not counting fractionals...
Regional: If you get stuck or decide to stay, you can can make an adequate living by white collar profession standards. In the olds days that was $100K, today it's $150K+, but you'll have to put in your time, ten+ years. There are downsides to the regional industry, they are subcontractors and the contracts can dry up on a whim. Schedules usually suck for all but the most senior (nature of the beast, six legs/day, with lots of unpaid time cooling your heels between flights). Bases close, and companies close. Don't need a degree. LCC: More money and stability than regionals. Maybe better schedules, maybe not. Eventually you will make more money than your average white-collar peers (not counting doctors, law firm partners, etc). ACMI/Heavy Cargo: Better money than regionals, often faster money than LCC's. Downside is schedules... typical three on, two off. That's weeks. You'll notice your kids have gotten bigger when you return from a trip. Trips are long-haul, so lots of circadian disruption. Also *some* of these have bad reps for MX (some have good reps, just not as consistent as 121 pax). May offer perks like home basing, so you can live where you want without worrying about a commute. Pay is variable, some small-town mom-and-pop outfits may pay less than regionals, but the folks who work there typically have their reasons. Many will pay better than what your your average white-collar peers make (not counting doctors, law firm partners, etc). Big Six (DL/UA/AA/SWA/FDX/UPS): They will get you to $200K real quick. Top may be as high as $900K in extreme cases. FO's make $200-300K+, most CA's $350-500K. Great schedules in general, or at least flexibility (compared to the rest of the industry). Perks like 16% 401k direct contribution, a couple still have DB retirements. Of course everybody wants to work at one of these. Hawaiian and Alaska are legacies, but have geographic niches, good places to work, but somewhere between LCC and big six. Two things... Seniority: If you get 8-10 years into a regional, it will be a pay and QOL cut initially (plus risk on probation year). Referred to as "Golden Handcuffs". Even worse as ACMI/LCC. Also geographic uncertaintity... might get assigned to a plane which is based only on the other side of the country, typically with a two-year seat-lock. Hard for a family man, even with a big payoff downrange, you can never replace those years with your kids. Big Six preferences: They seem to prefer folks who are motivated and moving along. A pilot who has plateaued as a regional CA, or an FO or even CA at LCC may get passed over in favor of younger folks who are still in ladder climbing mode. Also everybody wants to work here, so they can be picky... you'll hear the term "brass ring". You can predict if someone will NOT get called, based on their background (criminal issues, training busts, employment issues, "presentability". But if you have ten guys who have the right (civilian) background, maybe three will get called and it's hard to figure out which three it's going to be. Hence the lottery/brass ring analogies. It can even be hard to get a call from a LCC. These number should improve temporarily between now and about 2025, then start trending back to normal. Assuming good pilot record, "whole person" credentials also weigh heavily. There thousands of RJ CA's who cannot even get called by an LCC. Typically nothing wrong with them, but they've been stuck on one type for years due to circumstances beyond anyone's control and so are considered "stagnant". They watch their FO's get called by LCCs, and occasionally legacies. They can mitigate their circumstances by going full-court press on networking, job fairs, and applications. But they may need a recent training even which they just can't get. Also a family man (or woman) just doesn't have the time to jump through all those hoops. There are also folks who got a blackmark along the way, who would otherwise have progressed. You can 100% avoid DUI's but sometimes employment or training issues are hard to avoid (you should make every effort of course...) So the idea is to stay nimble and keep climbing until you hit a place that is comfortable enough for you to stay for a while. Be wary of any offers that come with long term lock-in periods. Do everything to you can to avoid 'black-marks' and if you do have any (like a failed check ride), make sure you can interview well with it. Be more than 'just a pilot', be well rounded with other skills and non-profit work to make yourself as interesting a person as possible to keep the recruiters attention. Get a diversity of experience. Fly other things. Pay to do so sometimes if you have to. Don't stagnate. Does that about cover it? Thanks! -Jay |
If you start now, you can retire as a pretty senior WB FO from a legacy airline. Maybe a somewhat junior WB CA.
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Originally Posted by JayMahon
(Post 2758107)
I've got no illusions I'll ever fly a widebody for a legacy carrier. I don't need to. Getting paid six figures to fly small jets for regionals or narrow bodies for a major would be more than enough.
The economy tanking impacts lots of other industries aside from just aviation. I can't control those larger patterns but I hope that aviation in general has a better opportunity to offer than the work I've been doing thus far. Is there any real chance of broad cabotage being allowed in the US? I haven't come across this other than just general fear mongering. Overall, not that depressing. Got any other dark clouds? Thanks! -Jay |
It may be well to remember that there is a lot more to flying and aviation than just the airlines.
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Originally Posted by JohnBurke
(Post 2758251)
It may be well to remember that there is a lot more to flying and aviation than just the airlines.
If you want to talk hopes and dreams, then this single statement sums them all up. I don't know what options and opportunities will avail themselves over the course of my life. There is a whole horizon out there full of possibility. I've worked my way up in every company I've ever worked for, I'm ambitious. That's not likely to change. I'm doing the research and preparing for a 'worst case scenario', a 'most likely scenario most folks settle for' and I'm leaving the door open to anything better than that. I don't need the better, but I'm glad it's at least in the air. |
Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 2758097)
Big Six (DL/UA/AA/SWA/FDX/UPS): They will get you to $200K real quick. Top may be as high as $900K in extreme cases. FO's make $200-300K+, most CA's $350-500K.........
To the OP. It sounds like you got a good grip on this. If you really have the love, the knack for flying, have the $$ to spend on training, and your family is 200% on board, you certainly should reach the regional level, and within a reasonable amount of time. Your biggest concern near term is the quality of the instruction you receive. Don't settle for mediocrity, its out there, buyer beware!! Best of luck. |
Originally Posted by dckozak
(Post 2758567)
900K. Really?? How can anyone even come close to this?? Even working at 200% for all your trips, I can't fathom how you could get within 200K of 900K. I think you do a disservice to even suggest numbers like this, even your other numbers are a reach for many.
To the OP. It sounds like you got a good grip on this. If you really have the love, the knack for flying, have the $$ to spend on training, and your family is 200% on board, you certainly should reach the regional level, and within a reasonable amount of time. Your biggest concern near term is the quality of the instruction you receive. Don't settle for mediocrity, its out there, buyer beware!! Best of luck. |
Originally Posted by dckozak
(Post 2758567)
900K. Really?? How can anyone even come close to this?? Even working at 200% for all your trips, I can't fathom how you could get within 200K of 900K. I think you do a disservice to even suggest numbers like this, even your other numbers are a reach for many.
To the OP. It sounds like you got a good grip on this. If you really have the love, the knack for flying, have the $$ to spend on training, and your family is 200% on board, you certainly should reach the regional level, and within a reasonable amount of time. Your biggest concern near term is the quality of the instruction you receive. Don't settle for mediocrity, its out there, buyer beware!! Best of luck. I believe the recipe was senior 350 CA's being bought from their trips for IOE, then working green slips. |
Originally Posted by dckozak
(Post 2758567)
To the OP. It sounds like you got a good grip on this. If you really have the love, the knack for flying, have the $$ to spend on training, and your family is 200% on board, you certainly should reach the regional level, and within a reasonable amount of time. Your biggest concern near term is the quality of the instruction you receive. Don't settle for mediocrity, its out there, buyer beware!! Best of luck.
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Originally Posted by JayMahon
(Post 2759115)
Thoughts on the best method of determining the quality of instruction?
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Originally Posted by JayMahon
(Post 2757251)
I appreciate your feedback and looking out for some of the common obstacles that trip up prospective pilots. Any other insights? Any other dark clouds on the horizon I'm not seeing?
I got my CFI and CFII done last month. Let me say I LOVE instructing, getting paid to do what I have spent a lot of money doing for the love is amazing. Here is the downside of being a CFI. Yesterday (Sunday) I was at the airport for my first lesson at 6:45am, I left the airport at 9:30pm (add 30 min each way driving to/from airport), I billed for about 6 hours of flight time (and another 2 or so for ground). So when you calculate your income, realize you are not being paid (in most cases) for the 60-90 min in between lessons, so to get to 36k per year you are away from the house for many more hours. Dont get me wrong, I drove home from the airport with a smile on my face. I have always been a work-a-holic and my wife is used to me not working regular hours and my kids are grown. I dont need the money, but if I did along with the long hours to "bill" enough and being away from home, that stress can be a huge downside to family life. EVEN if the wife says she is supportive, they always say that up front, very few actually turn out to be that way (the reason why a larger percentage of commercial pilots are divorced). My opinion is do the training on the side of a regular job, if you (and she) can handle you working full time and training when you are not working, you are set. Those are basically the hours of a CFI anyway and at least you can use the income form the job to pay for the lessons and not go into the hole financially |
Originally Posted by Never2Late
(Post 2761744)
Jay-
I got my CFI and CFII done last month. Let me say I LOVE instructing, getting paid to do what I have spent a lot of money doing for the love is amazing. Here is the downside of being a CFI. Yesterday (Sunday) I was at the airport for my first lesson at 6:45am, I left the airport at 9:30pm (add 30 min each way driving to/from airport), I billed for about 6 hours of flight time (and another 2 or so for ground). So when you calculate your income, realize you are not being paid (in most cases) for the 60-90 min in between lessons, so to get to 36k per year you are away from the house for many more hours. Dont get me wrong, I drove home from the airport with a smile on my face. I have always been a work-a-holic and my wife is used to me not working regular hours and my kids are grown. I dont need the money, but if I did along with the long hours to "bill" enough and being away from home, that stress can be a huge downside to family life. EVEN if the wife says she is supportive, they always say that up front, very few actually turn out to be that way (the reason why a larger percentage of commercial pilots are divorced). My opinion is do the training on the side of a regular job, if you (and she) can handle you working full time and training when you are not working, you are set. Those are basically the hours of a CFI anyway and at least you can use the income form the job to pay for the lessons and not go into the hole financially As for family, I am a family man. The wife's a real winner, we've been married 15 years and she's been by my side through all sorts of life changes. We homeschool our kids, so taking a Tuesday/Wednesday off is just as good as having the weekend (even better, Theme Parks don't get packed out mid week like they do on the weekend). We're in a transition place anyway, so relocation is wide open. I hope to delay a big step like this until I get on with a regional and we'll stay flexible to take advantage of good opportunities. A lot of the 'horror stories' I read have to do with being locked into one location and being 'stuck'. I'm coming into the game late but with no debt. We'll see how it goes. |
Originally Posted by JayMahon
(Post 2757979)
I'm LOOKING for dark clouds. So, some pilots get stuck with an operator that pays peanuts to fly the big boys. Sounds like a bad deal.
How does it happen? What keeps the pilot there instead of taking his experience elsewhere? Seniority? Lack of desire to fly in overseas environments that pay well for this level of experience? Give me some examples to deflate the optimism. That's SPECIFICALLY why I posted. I've read though these forums voraciously over the past few weeks collecting information. I'm reaching out to fill in the gaps and check the conclusions I've come to. I know a lot of Reserve military technicians who joined when furloughed, most had been there before hiring at an airline. Once they got established, life was good, decent pay, retirement, short commute. Some rejected recall, some went back after delaying. I’ve went back as a captain. Corporate pilots much the same. When you’re making 200k, have great QOL, adding 50k after taxes becomes less attractive. I know four guys who didn’t go back, resigning because life was good. Could they have made more money going back to AA or UA, yes. Was it worth it to them, no. Gf |
Originally Posted by JayMahon
(Post 2761841)
I enjoy teaching and training in other capacities, so I have a feeling the CFI route will be a fun one for me. I live near a college that has a growing aviation program but not a lot of aviation in the area, so there is a constant need for CFIs to cover their student base. Some of the CFIs are 9-5 with benefits (new CFIs, not Chief Instructors). I don't need a 9-5, I can be flexible and will try to pack as much flying in as I can.
As for family, I am a family man. The wife's a real winner, we've been married 15 years and she's been by my side through all sorts of life changes. We homeschool our kids, so taking a Tuesday/Wednesday off is just as good as having the weekend (even better, Theme Parks don't get packed out mid week like they do on the weekend). We're in a transition place anyway, so relocation is wide open. I hope to delay a big step like this until I get on with a regional and we'll stay flexible to take advantage of good opportunities. A lot of the 'horror stories' I read have to do with being locked into one location and being 'stuck'. I'm coming into the game late but with no debt. We'll see how it goes. Dont think I was discouraging you, I just wanted to give you some "black cloud" concerns. Keep in mind, I started my CFI training with 2 other guys, 1 guy dropped (no reason why) the other guy is struggling to get thru (he was away from flying and is not picking it up as quickly). He told me last week he is running out of training funds and thought he would be getting paid to fly by now. Think about what would happen during flight training if some event caused the airlines to stop hiring, would you be OK (obviously that would make it harder to find a CFI job), or if it became a struggle for you and it ended up costing 25% more than you planned. I know there is a pilot shortage, however I think we are 1 "event" away from it solving itself at least for another "lost decade". I think you are smart for asking about what could happen and you cant plan for it all but having some back up plan (another regular job) would not hurt the situation either. If a recession DID happen, the fact you already had a job is better than trying to look for a job. |
There has never been a better time (With the exception of 1966) to give it a shot best of luck.
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Originally Posted by badflaps
(Post 2761874)
There has never been a better time (With the exception of 1966) to give it a shot best of luck.
For those of you already in the air and looking at Corporate America as a 'grass is greener', here's a few things to keep in mind: There is no 9-5 in management/higher income thresholds. You will leave before the rest of your family is awake and you will get home long after dinner leftovers are cold in the fridge. Non-union positions are not safer for good employees. My bank is going through a reduction in force event and I just had to tell two of the top performing bankers that their roles are getting liquidated. Performance won't save you from something HR controls. HR controls everything. Commutes by car are just as bad if not worse than commuting via airport. The Per Diem is bare bones and almost no companies pay the IRS standard for vehicle mileage. One mistake can kill any career. Remaining unflexible will result in less opportunity. You will always have to choose between income potential and quality of life. Technology is rapidly replacing most high income positions. If you think something is safe because "it's about relationships" and that won't easily be replaced by computers you have your head in the sand like an ostrich. They're all up for grabs and it's closer than most expect. =) Cheers. |
Shelf life on recent training event?
Rick, what usually is the "shelf life" of a new type rating or upgrade in terms of what the majors are looking for?
3 yrs? 5 yrs? Longer? Generally speaking of course.... On that note, it seems like they are implying that recurrent sims every 6-12 months must be laughable, or almost so? Is that really the case? |
Originally Posted by Bahamasflyer
(Post 2762177)
Rick, what usually is the "shelf life" of a new type rating or upgrade in terms of what the majors are looking for?
3 yrs? 5 yrs? Longer? Generally speaking of course....
Originally Posted by Bahamasflyer
(Post 2762177)
On that note, it seems like they are implying that recurrent sims every 6-12 months must be laughable, or almost so? Is that really the case?
It is significantly harder to learn a new type than to pass recurrent on a type you are currently flying and have thousands of hours in. The majors have statistics... folks who have not learned a new type recently are a bigger training risk. |
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