Housewrench

Background info first since I doubt you want to search my post history -
Age: 28
Employment: Avionics line mechanic w/major carrier
Income: $70k now, $80k in 2022, $100k+ in 2025
Rent: $850/mo for bedroom near SFO
Goal: Legacy 121 career
Debt obligations: $1,750/mo ($1,100 student + $625 personal)

I should be able to rid myself of personal debt (refi loan) by mid-2022.

Here’s the part that actually matters to you guys: I have access to an employees’ flying club. Application is $80, deposit of $500. Dues are $50/mo, minimum 1hr logged/mo, and the (wet tach) rates are:

- 1980 172N (IFR) for $120/hr
- 2002 172SP (IFR/GPS/AP) for $135

Now, based on rough calculations, I figure by 2023 I could have a “spare” $1600/mo. By estimate of rental + instructor cost, that’s only 8-10hrs a month I could afford to fly. Is that enough to keep a reasonable training tempo? Those look more like hobbyist hours, not “pursuing a career” hours. Is it worth waiting several years? I know 35ish isn’t “too old” to start, but I figure I want to scramble for every seniority advantage I can get.

As an aside, I have a lovely fiancée who means the world to me. She should be a working Registered Nurse in Vegas by this time next year, and she is 100% supportive of my aviation obsession. We’ve had a few recent talks about this but haven’t sat down and tried building a paper timeline yet. I currently commute to her on weekends.

I’m all ears, throw me anything you’ve got. I’m still deep in the planning stages here, and trying my hardest to stay well-informed and realistic.

Thanks in advance.

JohnBurke

Those flying club rates are about what you'll pay at the flight schools in the area.

I'm a long time A&P and pilot. Don't quit your day job until you can afford to quit your day job, if you get my drift.

Minimum 1 hour flying per week, more is better, and the amount you need and from which you benefit really depends on you.

Housewrench

Does this mean it might be in my interests to find some place besides this “club?” Is the membership fee and deposit atypical of a less exclusive organization or something?

I have been discussing this with my lady all day, and she has agreed that when I’m ready to step out of line maintenance and into flight instructing, she will be prepared to back us as a breadwinning nurse in whichever city we happen to land.

JohnBurke

It sounds like you haven't shopped around.

The numbers you quoted for hourly on the aircraft seem about on par with what you might find in the area, or branching out a bit from your area (eg, Concord, etc).

If you're seeking a flight instructor certificate upon which to gain experience to move on, what facility or location will employ you to instruct and has enough business to keep you active and moving along? I'd want to investigate that very closely before committing.

DontLookDown

I agree with the others. The flight club prices aren’t impressive for a flight club. Those prices are on par with flight schools that don’t charge dues.

SFO is an expensive area, but so is NYC. I was living just outside of NYC and you could join a flight club and pay $110 wet for a C172. They charged by tach time, rather than Hobbs time, so the actual hourly rate was closer to $100.

Housewrench

My goal has never been to stay in the Bay Area - I hate this place, and I’m only here because of the line MX job. “My area” is 2,000mi away from here, but I have no illusions about finding aviation work there either.

I sat down with numbers last night and figured I could reasonably avalanche my payments to knock out all personal debt by 2022 - then I’d suddenly my have ~$1,100 available to either A) pursue flight training or B) roll it all into student loan debt immediately. Doing the former means I get to begin this journey 3 years from now, and doing the latter means I’m looking at closer to 5-6 years before I begin.

I haven’t shopped around because I honestly don’t want to factor in bridge tolls and longer distance into the equation. It looks like the club isn’t a good deal - not like I was going to shotgun a $500 deposit anyway, since that’s still a lot of money for me at this point.

But it looks like the timeline is getting much, much longer based on this assessment. At this rate I won’t be a private pilot until 2025, age 35, and that’s a bit discouraging to say the least. It’s apparent that the financial argument doesn’t agree with my goal.

JohnBurke

There's more involved than travel time and bridge fees. If you fly out of SFO, for example, you've got a fair amount of time in the airplane that will be spent getting in and out of the airport area. Just getting a clearance, taxiing, taking off, and departing the area is going to burn up a lot of your time, so an hour flight lesson, by the time you get to a practice area away from the airport and busy airspace, is going to have perhaps 10-20 minutes of actual practice time, the rest being consumed with flying in and out of San Fransisco.

If you're flying out of an airport where you have much less interference by airspace and a shorter flight to the practice area or at which you can do landings right at the airport, then you get more flying training and experience for your dollar, which means you progress faster and the cost may be less.

Keep in mind that while the FAA places a 40 hour minimum on getting a private pilot certificate (less hours if at a 141 school), it's just the minimum. The national average varies depending on location, between 65 and 80 hours, so about double what the FAA minimums are. That's what it takes many people to get through their training and solo, and get to the point of taking and passing a checkride. Other ratings and certificates are usually closer to the minimum hours, but not the private.

There's a lot you can do in the meantime, such as study for and take your knowledge exams ("written" tests). Join Civil Air Patrol and get involved that way. You'll get to know instructors and others in the area and may start flying as an "observer." CAP has very nice Cessna 182's that can't be used for primary flight training, but can be used for instrument, commercial, and other training, and are at a discounted price. Likewise, you can get involved with the Experimental Aircraft Association. The EAA may connect you with a number of local aviators, some of whom may be a help in accomplishing what you want. You may also find an opportunity to trade some wrench time for flight time, which is an "in" that most students don't have.

It's been a long time since I began flying, but as a kid that's exactly what I did; worked on airplanes in exchange for flight time.

If you run to Bakers, pick up that IA, if you don't have it, you've got a marketable skill with plenty of opportunity in your area that will let you do condition inspections, annuals, STC work, etc, that may open up an additional pathway to your goals and shorten that time. If you're staying ahead right now, or keeping up financially, then additional income outside your current pipeline might go directly to flying.

Reid Hillview, San Carlos, Palo Alto, Concord, Oakland, Livermore, and other airports in your area have schools, clubs, training facilities, etc, that have rentals, instructors, and potential future jobs, to say nothing of potential income on the side doing mx work, connections, CAP squadrons, EAA chapters, and so on.

DontLookDown

If you’re worried about finances, you’re still eligible for the armed forces if you get moving ASAP.

At age 28, you’re about to age out of many fixed wing opportunities.

You’ve still got rotary options available. You could join an army national guard unit as a warrant officer. They will like your degree and wrench turning experience. Get trained, get deployed and rack up some flight time.

Regionals are hurting bad enough that they are hiring helicopter pilots and transitioning them to fixed wing.

Instead of being a private pilot at age 35 with no money, you could be a regional pilot that had his primary training paid for by Uncle Sam and his transition training paid for by a regional