Brown Shugaaa

So I am pursuing a 4 year aviation degree at a school with a Letter of Authorization for R-ATP minimums.

LOA and FAR 61.160 state the same thing about qualifying for the R-ATP.

That I need to earn the degree with 60 credits earned in aviation courses.

That I have to complete instrument ground and flight training in a 141 program that is part of my degree curriculum.

That I have to complete Commercial ground and flight training in a 141 program that is part of my degree curriculum.

OK, so my question is:

If someone already has an instrument rating before starting their degree program, would they qualify for the R-ATP as long as they redid the training through their degree program?

Obviously a checkride can not be redone, but the FARs don't say anything about the checkride, just that the training must be completed under the umbrella of the degree program, and that the applicant hold a CPL and Inst. ticket before applying for the R-ATP.

I have 1 FSDO that says this would be acceptable, and 1 that says he isn't sure. A staff member at Embry Riddle said she has seen this before and the students did qualify, but my school says the student would not qualify.

Does anyone have any experience with this issue, or have any of you earned an R-ATP under circumstances similar to this?

Thanks in advance!

JohnBurke

The FSDO isn't authorized to provide you with an interpretation of the regulation, but it does have a plain-english rendering.

The FAA Chief Legal Counsel allows a transfer of no more than 50% of hours from one flight school to another when moving into a 141 program; how that may apply to an existing rating in the context of your question, I do not know, but it may have some applicability.

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...rpretation.pdf

Years ago when I looked at doing an online degree based on my certification, I was told that my private pilot would be used for credit, but no more. I held an ATP with multiple type ratings, but the schools wouldn't consider more than the private when granting credit, which I found idiotic...but then I didn't write the policies.

Equally idiotic would be re-doing your instrument training just to qualify for the restricted ATP.

You have the option without all the hoops under 61.160(d). That only requires 1,250 flight hours.

Re-doing all your ground and flight training would only save you a few hours, and those you could easily log doing instruction or other work. You can hammer that out easily enough doing a summer of banner towing...why go to all that effort and expense of re-doing college courses just to get your restricted ATP a few hours earlier. It makes no sense.

rickair7777

This is one of those things they didn't really anticipate or account for, so the answer is indeterminate, unless you write a letter to FAA legal and get a written interpretation. My best guess is that if pressed, the FAA would specify that the obvious *intent* was that you complete the entire 141 training program, including the EOC checkride.

I don't think you could take a ride for a rating you already posses, but you can certainly have the FAA remove the IR from your ticket and do it all over again. Plenty of folks have had the 737 type removed from their ticket, you just submit a written request.


As JB said, it would be a waste of time and money.

JohnBurke

Why would one want to have a 737 type removed from a pilot certificate?

rickair7777

Because you wanted to work at SWA back when that was the hot ticket, got typed, didn't get called/hired, and then found out that the big three were tired of losing new hires to SWA and wouldn't talk to folks who had a 73 type with no operational experience. Yes that was a thing at one point. At least one of the apps had a question about the 737 type.

my6FOh

I did exactly what you have described. I started at UND with a private, instrument rating, and about 100 hours. They required me to complete their entire instrument/commercial course and I was able to get a 1000 hr r-atp. All I had to give to the FAA was the certificate from UND stating I completed the program and transcripts showing my 60 hours of approved courses.

JohnBurke

Never heard of that, but it's beyond idiotic.

155mm

The whole concept of a Restricted ATP is idiotic but that's what we have!

Brown Shugaaa

Thanks for the input. I’m glad to hear that someone has successfully earned the r-atp in this manner.

I have some pretty solid reasons for taking this route instead of “banner towing for a summer”. It’s all about timing for me. And my degree, including flight training, is paid for by my GI Bill. So no, it’s not an idiotic idea, I just wasn’t sure if it would work or not.

155mm

I'm not saying your track is an idiotic idea at all! I'm sorry if you interpreted it that way! I'm saying the whole concept of the RATP was a reactionary process to appease Congress and the public. Personally, the Commercial ticket should have been adequate for an FO job but times have changed and it is what it is. Anyway, good luck!