5 Questions for CFI's
#1
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2019
Posts: 10
5 Questions for CFI's
You don't need to pullout your log books. I am only wanting your best guess from your experience.
Assume you wish to fly as much as possible and safely within FAA regs.
Your students are all working toward a CFI with all ratings for fixed wing. Each at a different phase of training. They will finish with ~400 hours of TT
Assume blue skies, aircraft always available, students waiting for you to start them. Normal breaks, lunch and a day that starts at 0800 and ends at 1700. No delays! ideal in that you could fly as much as you could during this time for 20 days per month. =========
1 How many hours might you fly daily? Monthly?
2 What percentage of training is for ground instruction?
3 How much would you be paid per month under these conditions.
4 Have you ever trained at night other than for the purpose of night time required training or cross country trips that may have been night flights?
5 How do you feel about night flight training when appropriate?
If you are a full time CFI and have some "real life" data, I would appreciate hearing that as well.
I remember that after 4-5 hours on a trip it was nice to land for gas. We might make a second similar leg per day before finding a room.
I assume that most training sessions are an hour or 90 minutes each with 20-30 minutes ground time. I think that was what I usually did at OSU for Commercial, ME and IFR.
[I am new to this forum. I got my PPL in 1969, no CFI, no military flying all for my business. I have more than 2,400 SE hrs and 800 hrs ME Navajo. I no longer fly but I may get checked out this year again. A friend asked me to do some research about training schools.]
Hope someone can help. Thanks ahead of time.
Assume you wish to fly as much as possible and safely within FAA regs.
Your students are all working toward a CFI with all ratings for fixed wing. Each at a different phase of training. They will finish with ~400 hours of TT
Assume blue skies, aircraft always available, students waiting for you to start them. Normal breaks, lunch and a day that starts at 0800 and ends at 1700. No delays! ideal in that you could fly as much as you could during this time for 20 days per month. =========
1 How many hours might you fly daily? Monthly?
2 What percentage of training is for ground instruction?
3 How much would you be paid per month under these conditions.
4 Have you ever trained at night other than for the purpose of night time required training or cross country trips that may have been night flights?
5 How do you feel about night flight training when appropriate?
If you are a full time CFI and have some "real life" data, I would appreciate hearing that as well.
I remember that after 4-5 hours on a trip it was nice to land for gas. We might make a second similar leg per day before finding a room.
I assume that most training sessions are an hour or 90 minutes each with 20-30 minutes ground time. I think that was what I usually did at OSU for Commercial, ME and IFR.
[I am new to this forum. I got my PPL in 1969, no CFI, no military flying all for my business. I have more than 2,400 SE hrs and 800 hrs ME Navajo. I no longer fly but I may get checked out this year again. A friend asked me to do some research about training schools.]
Hope someone can help. Thanks ahead of time.
#2
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2019
Posts: 75
I am not a CFI. I am a student working on my PPL. I can tell you a little bit about my school though.
It is based in an affluent area at a class D airport. Part 141 school. About 50% of students are career changes and 50% wealthy older men getting their PPL.
Every CFI right now is doing around 85-100 hours of flight time per month. Sessions are booked in 2 hour windows. Most the ground school is done online through king schools. The ground school is mainly briefing and debriefing before and after flights. You are expected to learn the majority of material from the online school. Most CFI’s are working 6 days per week. 0700 - 1900. Long hours...
Based on things I have heard, if the CFI’s are super busy they may be making somewhere in the low-mid 30K range. Maybe more including the ground school? I believe they have health insurance and benefits through the school.
Most the CFI’s are getting their hours for ATP in about 1.5-2 years. One CFI went from 0 to 1500 hours for ATP in 2 years.
It is based in an affluent area at a class D airport. Part 141 school. About 50% of students are career changes and 50% wealthy older men getting their PPL.
Every CFI right now is doing around 85-100 hours of flight time per month. Sessions are booked in 2 hour windows. Most the ground school is done online through king schools. The ground school is mainly briefing and debriefing before and after flights. You are expected to learn the majority of material from the online school. Most CFI’s are working 6 days per week. 0700 - 1900. Long hours...
Based on things I have heard, if the CFI’s are super busy they may be making somewhere in the low-mid 30K range. Maybe more including the ground school? I believe they have health insurance and benefits through the school.
Most the CFI’s are getting their hours for ATP in about 1.5-2 years. One CFI went from 0 to 1500 hours for ATP in 2 years.
#3
A good ratio for flight and ground is 1:1
40 hrs flight and 40 hrs ground.
Makes no sense practicing in the air what you don’t understand on the ground.
In an air conditioned classroom I have your full attention and in the airplane you have to juggle 5-6 separate items that require your attention and as a CFI I’m only one of those.
Ideally as a CFI your day is flight-ground-flight-ground in 2 hr slots.
Work 8 hrs get paid for 6.
That’s 75% efficiency which for a CFI is really high.
Instrument training at night makes a lot of sense.
Less cheating from under the hood, cooler calmer air and generally less busy controllers and different approaches you can fly.
ATC may allow a full ILS approach with procedure turn instead of radar vectors.
They may allow you to hold on the outer marker etc etc etc.
Another good one is landing practice for Commercial students.
Short field/ Soft field, full flap, partial flap, no flap, combinations of any of the above. Night gives you a different perspective.
Multi engine training at night for CPL ME add on.
Initial CFI training at night adds another difficulty element.
40 hrs flight and 40 hrs ground.
Makes no sense practicing in the air what you don’t understand on the ground.
In an air conditioned classroom I have your full attention and in the airplane you have to juggle 5-6 separate items that require your attention and as a CFI I’m only one of those.
Ideally as a CFI your day is flight-ground-flight-ground in 2 hr slots.
Work 8 hrs get paid for 6.
That’s 75% efficiency which for a CFI is really high.
Instrument training at night makes a lot of sense.
Less cheating from under the hood, cooler calmer air and generally less busy controllers and different approaches you can fly.
ATC may allow a full ILS approach with procedure turn instead of radar vectors.
They may allow you to hold on the outer marker etc etc etc.
Another good one is landing practice for Commercial students.
Short field/ Soft field, full flap, partial flap, no flap, combinations of any of the above. Night gives you a different perspective.
Multi engine training at night for CPL ME add on.
Initial CFI training at night adds another difficulty element.
#5
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2019
Posts: 10
TiredSoul: Thanks
Very interesting. So much learning today is done online. I take several college courses on Coursera.com. They are usually FREE. These courses have testing each step of the way.
I am surprised that a student today would not being using such systems/workflows for ground schools and you would be spending that much time for something they should be able to do on their own.
My OSU course was very short on classroom. They expected that I was capable of reading and learning that way. I will also say, that rules, regs and navigation was a little simpler then too.
Thanks for the feedback. It is what it is and that is exactly what I am looking to understand. The night comments are very helpful.
To reduce cost, utility is a must. Keeping aircraft in the air, where they belong is key to any school. It seems that there are many hours available at night when one could train but don't. I love night flying, especially for IFR and building hours.
Maybe it is an insurance issue and maybe, with some really old planes, it is too dangerous. I flew thousands of SE hours at night but I had a new plane that purred like a cat.
Is night flight in SE is considered hazardous duty? Anyone? Even in new aircraft?
Very interesting. So much learning today is done online. I take several college courses on Coursera.com. They are usually FREE. These courses have testing each step of the way.
I am surprised that a student today would not being using such systems/workflows for ground schools and you would be spending that much time for something they should be able to do on their own.
My OSU course was very short on classroom. They expected that I was capable of reading and learning that way. I will also say, that rules, regs and navigation was a little simpler then too.
Thanks for the feedback. It is what it is and that is exactly what I am looking to understand. The night comments are very helpful.
To reduce cost, utility is a must. Keeping aircraft in the air, where they belong is key to any school. It seems that there are many hours available at night when one could train but don't. I love night flying, especially for IFR and building hours.
Maybe it is an insurance issue and maybe, with some really old planes, it is too dangerous. I flew thousands of SE hours at night but I had a new plane that purred like a cat.
Is night flight in SE is considered hazardous duty? Anyone? Even in new aircraft?
#6
I used to fly close to 140 hours a month as a CFI. Roughly 7 hours of block per day and 6 days a week. Sometimes closer to 6 hours a day, sometimes closer to 8. Very busy school that had
me booked out a month in advance so no “block” was every empty in my day. Little to no ground school as they used some Cessna ground school program they sold that we could track their progress.
me booked out a month in advance so no “block” was every empty in my day. Little to no ground school as they used some Cessna ground school program they sold that we could track their progress.
#7
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2019
Posts: 10
Thanks Sargent.
Sounds like it was well run and highly profitable school.
Did they buy new aircraft?
Did you think that the school was a great place to learn too?
Sounds to me that the CFI's and students were in a good place. Win-Win
Here is another comment for thought.
I computed that a new pilot starting today and flies 30 years as Airline pilot will have a lifetime income of over $4.5 million. If year 29 pay is $175,000.
How much is a year of training or school costing you today if your earning $0?
Anyone?
Sounds like it was well run and highly profitable school.
Did they buy new aircraft?
Did you think that the school was a great place to learn too?
Sounds to me that the CFI's and students were in a good place. Win-Win
Here is another comment for thought.
I computed that a new pilot starting today and flies 30 years as Airline pilot will have a lifetime income of over $4.5 million. If year 29 pay is $175,000.
How much is a year of training or school costing you today if your earning $0?
Anyone?
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