Douglas89

Hey guys,

I finished my PPL recently and have started instrument training. My school uses the King schools for the ground training. Personally, I do not think the King Schools is all that great. Some of their explanations are very confusing.

I feel that instrument training has already improved my flying. My scan is much better than what it used to be. I hold altitudes a lot better in my VFR flying.


I have a few questions for those of you with instrument ratings.

1. What did you feel was the most difficult aspect of getting your Instrument rating?

2. Do you have any tips for holds/arcs?

3. What ground school program did you use?

4. How long did it take you to complete instrument from start to finish.

5. At what point in your training did you take your written?

6. What advice would you give to an instrument student?


Thanks!

rickair7777

I don't like anything to do with King. Jepp or Cessna products are fine.

Holds and Arcs.


Memorize the compass rose and reciprocal courses.

Chair fly holds (you can do it anywhere with paper and pen) until they become second nature. People fail airline checkrides because they goof up programming the FMS and then can't remember how to hand-fly a hold entry.

DME Arcs: Turn 10, twist 10. Also chair fly a bunch of these, you need to have a second-nature grasp pf the compass rose, when to lead turns, etc. It's all about the compass.

Cessna. Worked fine, didn't have any particular reason for selecting it though.

A few weeks.

Early.

Master the fundamentals before moving to the next step.... otherwise you'll just reinforce bad habits and also suck at the next steps.

Don't try to learn the procedures in the plane, do that on the ground or in an FTD. Only fly when you're ready to APPLY your well-learned procedures in the plane.

Douglas89

Thanks for the info! So far the most confusing part has been holds/Arc's. I will keep practicing them.

I think most guys have been taking about 3 months to finish instrument at my school. At this rate, I don't think I will be ready by then but I guess we will see.

I agree with developing a strong foundation. I need to work on my weaknesses and turn them into strengths.

Thanks!

DanMarino

Didn’t King make the Cessna ground stuff?

JamesNoBrakes

The checkride of course.
1. Use an RMI needle if your aircraft has that capability. Keep it at 90 degrees, easy peazy, you can hold the arc with a crazy minimal bank like 1 degree, it's fun to do.

2. Use GPS substitution if it's a published arc.

3. If going old-school, use one CDI to twist 10 and turn 10 centering with a TO indication and set the other CDI to your inbound or outbound course (depending on which you are given), so the needle will point to the direction you'll be turning off the arc. I think this helps to visualize it all, centering with a TO points it towards the DME reference and setting the other one with the course you are going to turn to...

4. If you only have one CDI..well, that sucks, but you can still do it.

For holds, you can make a little card/diagram that cuts your heading indicator up into 3 sections and then based on the radial or outbound heading that you are holding on, it tells you what entry to make. There's a funky top-down picture that is out there that DOES NOT correspond with your heading, that is not what I'm referring to. This one, you just align with your current heading as long as you are heading to the hold, and it tells you what entry to make. I actually DO remember this one And then you just use POTS...
Formal class for ground school, flight instructor for ground lessons .
Honestly don't remember.

Pretty sure it was after completion of the ground course, which was maybe 2 months long.

Dig into the FAA publications like the AIM, charts, Instrument Flying Handbook and Instrument Procedures Handbook. Learn these front to back. Home courses are trying to teach you this stuff, but it's best to be familiar with the source material. As I remember, a lot of the instrument questions were navigation, instrument reading and weather questions, some with little real-world relevance. I'm not sure if this has changed, so realize for the ground course and studying, there are two goals, one is to pass the written, the other is to help you pass the oral. The written ends up being a rote memory thing, but the oral ends up being a lot of correlation and scenarios and ability to use the information in those publications.


Thanks![/QUOTE]

jdaero

1. What did you feel was the most difficult aspect of getting your Instrument rating?

There is a lots of rules that could be very confusing. Rules that might seem like they dont matter, but they do. Having an experience instructor that you like working with, makes a difference for your instrument rating.

2. Do you have any tips for holds/arcs?


3. What ground school program did you use?
Sportys and Shepart Air is what we recommend

4. How long did it take you to complete instrument from start to finish.
less than 6 month, all depends on you

5. At what point in your training did you take your written?
Get it done early.

6. What advice would you give to an instrument student?
Use an AATD and get a great instructor.

Here is our guide on how to get an instrument rating: https://www.aviator.nyc/instrument-r...raining-guide/

BravoPapa

Great short video on simple way to set up an unpublished hold in 3 easy steps:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBAVjg6OS9I

60av8tor

Free up the gray matter for more important stuff. Reciprocal course for the hold... use +2/-2. Either add or subtract 2 to the first digit and do the opposite - add or subtract 2 to the second digit:

236 inbound: subtract 2, add 2. 056 outbound

058 inbound: add 2, subtract 2. 238 outbound

Obviously reciprocals of headings <180 are fairly easy in your head. You’re merely adding 180. But this trick makes >180 - where you have to subtract 180 - much easier.

TiredSoul

Law of Primacy.
Flaws in your Private Pilot training will reveal themselves during your Instrument rating.
If you can’t maintain altitude while tracking a radial in VMC you sure as biscuits not going to do it under the hood.
A good PPL instructor will pay attention to skills you need for your IR.
Groom you if you will.
Accurate constant speed climbs/descents, constant rate climbs/descents with and without configuration changes.
Accurately tracking radials close to a VOR while climbing and descending.
Flying on Instruments is 90% a mental skill and this takes time to develop.
Personally I do not believe in the ‘10 day’ instrument rating unless it’s a brush up after a training hiatus.

JamesNoBrakes

I agree with a lot of this. My philosophy on instrument scan is that experienced pilots spend most of the time on the attitude and all the time on it for changes and they "know" which instrument to go to after they make a change, such as when doing a vertical speed descent, you make the change with pitch and power, ensure your changes are stable, then look at the vsi, then look back at the attitude and decide what to do next with the attitude, or if it made the change you want, you look at "something else" then back to the attitude. They know that there's no point in looking at the airspeed every 2 seconds, as it's not going to change that fast and if you haven't changed pitch or power, it's not going to change. As a new instrument pilot, it's a good idea to look at the AI 90% of the time and then "something else" and bounce back to the AI. The instructor should drill in your head the "primary" instrument for whatever you are doing. For maintaining S&L and any change, the AI. For maintaining a standard rate turn, the turn rate, for maintaining altitude, the altimeter gives you altitude and vertical speed, so it's better than just vertical speed, and so on. This dictates "where your eyes should go" in that 10% of the time you are not looking at the AI and helps you fly stable in instrument flight. And trim trim trim...