louu

Hi guys and gals,
Ill start with where I am now. 39 year old local 13 Biolermaker. If you don't know what that is were the guys that build and maintain power houses, nukes and the oil refineries that fuel everything. Well the industry is coming to an end, well maybe not an end but is is so slow that there is no point in continuing. I grew up poor so no free ride to college. It didn't matter though because Iv'e always had a strong work ethic, wanted to earn everything myself and didn't want a hand out. I went through the apprenticeship with the Biolermakers and earned my money. I got in because I went to a night school for welding and graduated top of the class.

Iv'e always had the dream of flying, really what kid hasn't? My retirement goal is to buy my own plane with my annuity.

Well I'm ready for a career change and why not chase my dream right now? There is a newer 141 school right across the bridge from me in Delaware called FlyGateway flyGATEWAY Flight School | New Castle, Allentown, Blue Bell Witch leads me to my first question (witch I already got some ideas through a couple of PM,s here, thanks guys). Is $55K a good price for what they offer?
I'm going to give them a call in a couple of days and set up a tour/discovery flight but before I do I'm researching what questions I should be asking. If you guys have anything please let me know.

Iv'e been reading this forum before I joined and a bunch of other stuff on the internet and it seems there is, well, contempt, for lack of a better word for people that didn't go to college and want to be pilots.
Iv'e also been job searching for pilots and some say four year degree is required but it seems like most don't. here is some examples
https://www.google.com/search?q=regi...:1577735477216

hers a lot of examples
https://www.airlineapps.com/jobs/Default.aspx

https://www.planesense.com/pilot-car...mpaign=careers

So whats the deal with the ones that say it's not required? Is it not really needed or does it go without saying that it really is?
Here's my deal with that, I do have a wife, kid and house. She will support me and everything for a couple of years for me to go to flight school but it better pay off or I'm in big trouble (obviously). If I can get a decent job after two years I would have no problem getting a degree to later get a better job.

That's a start for now and sorry to bee the one millionth noob to ask the same questions lol.
Hopefully everything will work out and ill be on this board for a long time.

Thanks
Lou

PRS Guitars

It’s more like there is contempt from those that didn’t go to college, about needing a degree to get hired at a major.

Here is the deal, do you need a degree to be a professional pilot? No. But...it currently is pretty much a requirement to get hired at a major airline, which are the top paying jobs. Will it always be...maybe. Are there ways around it? Yes, but from a statistical point of view, if you want to be a major airline pilot, you ought to do everything needed to get there. Just like you had to do your apprenticeship to get your current job.

There are tons of flying jobs that don’t require it though. Or you could try to get on with an American Airlines wholly owned regional and eventually flow.

Excargodog

Realistically even hustling you are going to need two years to get to where you would become eligible for an Airline Transport Pilot rating and a regional airline job. Figure you will be at the regional for an additional three years (earning probably $70K a year during that time) before you will be competitive for a lower tier major or an additional year to be competitive for an upper tier major, all assuming a clean training record, no DUIs (hey, I know why they call the drink a Boilermaker), no visible tattoos or piercings, etc. but during that time you still will probably have to pick up an online four year degree to get really competitive at the upper level. Fortunately you will have many nights in hotel rooms where you can get the degree done without impacting your family life.

So basically you are looking at about a six year effort if you work at it, followed by a 20 year career making pretty decent money and being off about two weeks out of every month.

It is what it is. Get buy-in from the spouse before you say yes.

galaxy flyer

There’s “stated” mins and “competitive” minimums. The stated mind just make HR types happy as they can say they’ll consider all applicants before the EEOC. Competitive hiring mins are variable depending on the market—whose hiring, what is out there in the way of pilots looking for work. At the prime jobs—majors, legacy lines, top corporate jobs, all require college degrees and have for decades. Yes, 1 in 100 get hired without one, but they have compensating factors including inside contacts. Regionals right now, be alive and have ATP hours, you’re in if you don’t a horrible record—DUIs, arrests, etc.

This standards can fluctuate, but not often have them been lower than today. Big risks.

rickair7777

Impatience perhaps. Major airline aviation has been a white-collar enclave for many decades now, it is likely to be continue to be. Military officers set the tone for that, and the military is big on higher education (you usually won't get far without a masters in the mil).

If you went on doctor, lawyer, or business exec forums and complained that they required degrees/advanced education what kind of reception would you expect?

It is what it is. The rugged individualist types who refuse to waste time on college out of principle tend to gravitate towards fractionals and corporate aviation. They are typically not burdened with unions in those sectors, and so are free to provide excellent labor value for their employers dollar (typically 3-4 times the value a union major airline pilot provides).

Many corporate and all regional jobs don't require a degree, formally or otherwise. So you can get a job for sure.

Very few major airlines (and no regionals) formally require a 4-year degree.

But ALL of the top-tier jobs will essentially not hire you without one. Those are the jobs people envison when they think of highly paid pilots jetting off to exotic layovers.

Exception for rare affirmative action cases and possibly the kids of very senior managers. There are other very rare exceptions, but they all have lengthy and impressive flight operations resumes, including training and leadership roles (you're too old to get there before age 65). Statistically we're talking 1%, and I'm rounding up.

SWA might hire you with an associates, odds might be better than 1% but less than 5%.

Lower-tier majors still highly prefer the degree too, but it's getting more common to see folks hired without it. Over time, the pilot shortage may amplify that.

It's practical to obtain or finish a BS/BA degree while working your way up at a regional, it's not uncommon. It will be a burden on the family.

As others mentioned if you take a job at an AA owned regional you will flow up to AA eventually. It will take longer (on average) but is a relatively safe bet given all of their retirements.


BTW, I didn't have a free ride either. Wanted to be a pilot as a kid so busted my hump in HS and got a mil scholarship. I played the game they asked me to play.

louu

Thank you for the reply. I am planning on getting started on a degree within the next few years. Any tips on what to look for at this new flight school?

BTW, love PRS guitars, had one for a little while and even for a hack guitar player like me it sounded amazing. I'm a bass player and a drummer.

Thank you for all the advice. I do have a perfect record, don't hte me guys but I never drank alcohol or tried any kind of drugs, yeah I don't fit in with more than half of my local but I really don't care what those guys think.

I didn't even think of the tattoo thing, they are not visible if I'm wearing long sleeves. I have the American flag on my arm, do you think that would be a problem getting into the regionals?

louu

Hey guys, tried quote and reply but I think it said it has to be approved.

Thanks for all the help and I am scheduled for the tour and discovery flight Friday. It's going to rain and I hope that won't be a problem.

Do you guys have any tips on questions I should be asking them?

Thanks again for all the wisdom on this board

el_duderino

Find some current students and ask what they think, try to find a range, those in PPL all through Commercial and even CFI students, find out what they wish they'd known about before choosing that school. School employees and the CFI are gonna be sales folks on a discovery flight, so listen to what they're saying but keep an open mind. Opinions are just that, but if you see some underlying commonalities, I'd take that into consideration. Maybe everybody has good things to say, then even better. Good luck.

Aloft0442

I currently fly out of their Blue Bell locations (KLOM) and from what I have gathered they have a good operation. The other locations are more "School" oriented but they are trying to make KLOM similar. Nice and well maintained aircraft. It also helps that the owner has deep pockets..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regis_de_Ramel

TJBrass

Don't buy your own plane!