MrMondays

Hi Folks,

After several discovery flights, I’ve decided to change careers at 30. My goal is to get from 0 TT to regionals as quickly and efficient as possible.

1. ATP is 1.5 hours away and has a proven program with steady flow of 50 students and 10 CFI’s. Guaranteed CFI job after grad.
2. VT - AAA Part 141 School just opened 5 minutes away. They are 5 months new, 10 students, 3 instructors and 3 brand new pipers, 1 new sentinel multi and 20 more pipers on the way this year. Owners are Buying the airport and forecasting huge student growth. Offer guaranteed CFI job after grad.

VT looks to be about $10k cheaper, but I’ve heard people getting caught up in the structure of a 141 program and not being able to progress as quickly as they’d like. Likewise, I’m concerned they wont have the student population to support the eventually need to build hours as a CFI. While the brand new planes and proximity to my home are appealing, I’m concerned in trusting a brand new school.

Any advice on how I should be objectively comparing the 2 programs?

Thanks!

rickair7777

1. ATP has a reputation as a meat grinder, seems like you'll probably do fine there if you're an aggressive self-starter. Other folks seem to get lost in the herd and end up with multiple career-altering check ride busts before they know what happened. May be a generational thing, I don't recall it being a problem 20 years ago.

2. The new school is very convenient for you. If their "vibe" seems good it might be worth taking a chance on their growth. Worst case you'll be able to get a job as a CFI somewhere regardless. Talk to some students, also find out which DPEs they use and research those. New airplanes bodes well IMO, hopefully more dispatch reliability. Also be aware that a "guaranteed CFI job" often means you hang out at the shop and then maybe get paid if any students turn up (or you recruit some students).

141 has the flexibility drawback but you should compare both programs based on:

a) Total cost of program.
b) Total flight hours during the program.

141 likes to brag about getting you done with less hours but then they charge you more so you can end graduating with more debt and fewer total hours from 141... but you still need 1500 hours for the airlines. Something to consider, ie total cost per flight hour acquired (assuming you get the same ratings from both schools).

warm body

do you want to fail a check ride?

or 141 with stage checks?

Not trying to get inside your head. But. You went on to a forum to ask random strangers on how you should spend 80,000 dollars. People who are typically successful at ATP have egos a few degrees north of LT. Pete Mitchell. They don't go on public forums and ask strangers what they should do.

Probably a sign you should avoid ATP

Twin Wasp

Shouldn’t that be “more debt and fewer hours total hours from 61”? But ATP is a part 141 school too so the OP's choice comes down to the more distant known quantity versus the closer upstart.

Jeff90

ATP is part 61

viper548

I'd go with option 2. ATPs has a bad reputation for getting students thru with multiple failures. You will probably need to be proactive with getting on the schedule at the part 141 school to make sure you're progressing quickly.

35Right

You'll finish your commercial at 120 hours in 141 compared to 250 for Part 61. I believe he's saying 141 schools charge more, therefore you'll end up paying more while ending up with fewer hours at the end going the 141 route.

141 schools don't hamper progression unless it's part of a university flight program that bases their flight schedule on a semester schedule and you don't fly over Christmas breaks, spring break, etc. Otherwise, fly your tail off and you'll still progress at the same rate as you would in a Part 61 environment.

My advice is to go to the local 141 school (you'll fly more frequently if it is nearby), then take your CFI certificate and instruct wherever you want. You want as little debt hanging over your head as possible when you get to the regionals.

rickair7777

ATP may hold a 141 certificate (for veterans with the GI Bill). That doesn't mean all of their students do 141.

Subieguy14

I wouldn't touch ATP with a 10 foot pole anymore. They used to get you done and not be too bad. But now you pay 80k and finish in 9 months with 25 hours multi.... I payed 70k for 100 hours multi and finished in 6 months. Just something to consider. They gouge the students way too much and the quality of flying is lacking. Many students there have never touched a grass field or flown in actual IMC (me included) until I got my first real flying job.

I don't have an opinion on the other school since I never went there. But what I know about ATP now, I would never recommend them to anyone.

Twin Wasp

Thanks for the info.