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Old 01-24-2021, 09:56 PM   #11  
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The problem I have with this is the same problem with so many similar issues.

The initial student has no concept of all of these things. They don't understand them. They can't do "careful research". They don't understand how to say "no" or what to do. Only years later with dozens of checkrides under their belt, do they tend to really understand these things, as a combination of experience, maturity and knowledge. It's like the college student taking out student loans or even choosing a school/major, they just don't have the real understanding at that stage of the implications and full picture to really know what they are doing. Saying "do your research" is a bit of a cop-out IMO.

The longer the student is in the game, as in the higher and further they go, the better they tend to be able to understand and control these things...but sometimes the damage is already done.
Yes, hence the mentor suggestion.

And APC exists for this reason as well.

Also unless Grandad flew in the big one, Dad, both uncles, and your older brother are airline pilots, and you grew up flying the family Bonanza then you should get a PPL before you commit to career-oriented flight training.
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Old 01-25-2021, 06:33 AM   #12  
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So you have an aircraft that is neutrally stable in bank at 50 degrees of bank and must be flown at a negative pitch attitude in level flight to allow for the nose on the horizon in the steep turn?
Lol, you must be real fun at parties.

Sorry, 45 degrees stable and maybe a couple swipes of trim .
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Old 01-25-2021, 06:53 AM   #13  
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Yes, hence the mentor suggestion.

And APC exists for this reason as well.

Also unless Grandad flew in the big one, Dad, both uncles, and your older brother are airline pilots, and you grew up flying the family Bonanza then you should get a PPL before you commit to career-oriented flight training.
THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I'm a broken record at this point but flying is an aptitude. You should find out if you have it before you become an indentured servant to Aunt Sallie Mae.

Don't quit your day job. Pay for your private (and instrument if possible) out of pocket and then decide if this is something you really want to do.

The top Delta pay scale looks nice. Just make sure you show the top Skywest pay to your significant other before you decide to walk away from your boring six figure job and mortgage the farm to pay for flight training.
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Old 01-25-2021, 07:15 AM   #14  
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Rickair7777 and CFIguy are right on. I retired at 65 7 years ago. Got my ratings and flight time in the late 60ís and 70ís. My advice to a young man would be take ONE step at a time. Get the Private Pilots License first on its own and then evaluate your future.
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Old 01-25-2021, 08:33 AM   #15  
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Lol, you must be real fun at parties.

Sorry, 45 degrees stable and maybe a couple swipes of trim .
So what airplane has neutral bank stability at 45 or 50 degrees of bank? I tend to remember this more around 10-20.

I'm not sure what the pitch trim has to do with it. Are you saying that pitch trim somehow negates negative bank stability? Are you saying that with the "nose on the horizon" you can maintain enough lift in the steep turn, or does it take an increase in pitch attitude? You said you could maintain a coordinated turn with just rudder during a steep turn, so this implies there must be neutral bank stability, otherwise the plane would roll in or out of the turn. If it does not have neutral stability in bank and you are using the rudder to maintain bank, that is A, not the way the maneuver should be flown and B, not coordinated.

Last edited by JamesNoBrakes; 01-25-2021 at 08:48 AM.
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Old 01-27-2021, 07:37 AM   #16  
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First point, the OP needs to take a writing course and maybe proofread his work. Second, he make good points and the responses are worth reading. In line with a recent response, Iíd just say, ď You donít know what you donít knowĒ, students without a relavent mentor are at a disadvantage navigating civilian flight training. Working with my own son, I know Iím looking out for his interests and I have a lot of relavent advice regarding training based on my own experience as a rookie. That said, I have no recent experience either as an instructor or interviewing for a job either entry level or career.

My take, seek advice from someone who can relate to your goals in aviation and do your part to do the best you can with the resources at your disposal. The internet provides a wealth of information us old goats wish we could of had. Just the stuff the FAA gives away is worth hours of review and reading. At the end of the day the student ultimately has to do the work and make it happen.
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Old 01-27-2021, 11:21 AM   #17  
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So you have an aircraft that is neutrally stable in bank at 50 degrees of bank and must be flown at a negative pitch attitude in level flight to allow for the nose on the horizon in the steep turn?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes View Post
So what airplane has neutral bank stability at 45 or 50 degrees of bank? I tend to remember this more around 10-20.

I'm not sure what the pitch trim has to do with it. Are you saying that pitch trim somehow negates negative bank stability? Are you saying that with the "nose on the horizon" you can maintain enough lift in the steep turn, or does it take an increase in pitch attitude? You said you could maintain a coordinated turn with just rudder during a steep turn, so this implies there must be neutral bank stability, otherwise the plane would roll in or out of the turn. If it does not have neutral stability in bank and you are using the rudder to maintain bank, that is A, not the way the maneuver should be flown and B, not coordinated.
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Old 01-27-2021, 01:04 PM   #18  
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Mig 28. Duh. Sorry, I forgot all about the capabilities of the Mig 28.
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Old 01-27-2021, 01:10 PM   #19  
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To the OP. During the height of the shortage a LOT of instructors were out to put hours in their logbook. That was it. No intention of being a CFI beyond getting the airline job. It was a means to an end. The system was set up to bring in less than stellar instructors simply because they were forced down that route as the only reasonably economic way to get to 1500 outside of the military and Uncle Sugars deep pockets. I agree you should get your PPL and IMHO instrument as well. Now all that said post Covid I can't begin to guess what the airline industry looks like in 5 months much less 5 years down the road. The business travel segment is a big part of profitability under the old business model and how much comes back is up for spirited debate. Arguably everyone is an LCC for now and that likely will have a long term effect on wages throughout the aviation industry. Good luck.
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Old 01-31-2021, 06:52 PM   #20  
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I get what the OP is saying. I won't argue that this may be the "weakest" generation (age irrespective) of CFIs we have yet seen. But I would like to introduce 3 variables into the problem to show how you can't shoulder all the blame on the CFIs:
1) Longtime CFIs are rare now, due in part to the "ticket factories" that have pooped up all over. When I was an instructor, it was not uncommon to see CFIs with 2000-3000 dual given, at a REAL flight school. As in Part 61. The 141 schools with their airline costumes and scripted training leaves the CFI no room to develop as an airman, much less a teacher.
2) Students do not want to put in the effort anymore. The digital age of flight training has made training just a matter of watching TV, YouTube and using apps. Gone are the days of a pilot in training actually reading and studying, much less on their own time. They want spoon feeding and the bare minimums taught now.
3) MONEY. The cost of training has become inexcusably prohibitive. As a result, pilots in training are looking for the fastest and cheapest way to get it done.....which results in half-motivated effort for the fast track and not learning properly, because that takes time.
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