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Old 03-16-2021, 06:30 PM   #1  
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Default How would you handle this?

I'm getting close to retirement. I am ending a career having flown 121, Air Force before that and now 135. At points in my career I was an IP and check airman. I hold an ATP with 9 types with something north of 30,000 hours. I allowed my flight instructor certificates to lapse long ago.

Nearing retirement I would like to keep flying and I am renewing my flight instructor certificate to teach the next generation. I only need to renew one which renews all of them. Since I will be instructing in small Cessna type aircraft I chose to perform in a single engine Cessna.

I am preparing for a checkride at the local flight school. It is a school I would eventually like to instruct with as its the closest to my home. I am now on my fourth instructor. The last three have left for bigger airplanes after two or three flights. I have had to repeat a number of lessons due to the churn in flight instructors. The school is not aware of my background only that I am a soon retiring airline captain.

Recently I had a very odd interaction with my newest instructor who is the youngest of the four. He does not provide feedback. We do a maneuver he says to me "that was good" and we move onto the next one. I am now on my fifth lesson with this young man. I have no idea where I am in preparation for him to sign me off. I would have signed myself off long ago. After each flight I ask him where we are, he wants to do one more flight just to clean things up without specifics about what we are cleaning up. On more than one occasion I have asked him during a maneuver what his expectation was, knowing the PTS expectation, and his response was he did not know and would need to look it up. Meanwhile my PTS is on the dashboard in clear view and I have been referring to it during each flight and maneuver.

After a recent flight, after our debrief, which was essentially him billing me and not much reviewing, I asked him some pointed questions in a very casual voice not confrontational in any way. What's the plan here? He gets unusually defensive with me. I'm just asking for clarification about what specifically I should be focusing on and his response is I need to know the PTS. As I am speaking with him I have the PTS in hand. I've been referring to it during our flights and walking through each task to ensure we are covering what he needs to sign me off for a exam. I have even been marking the PTS what tasks we have accomplished.

During the now unusually one way heated conversation, where I had to question him why he was so hostile, we went from one more flight to now four or five and the specifics are I need to know the PTS. And he is so angry he is going to charge me for the time he wasted with this conversation. Which he proply does as we are still sitting there.

Though this conversation I was very calm yet mistified why this young man was suddenly so hostile towards me. This was a fairly bizarre experience. I understand flying a single engine cessna is very different from flying an heavy freighter. Given my background and experience I would like to believe I should not need this much instruction to prepare for a renewal of a flight instructor certificate. I would be interested opinions or suggestions here. Asking for yet another instructor is going to be problematic and I don't believe the school has another instructor at this level.

I'd like to see if there are other options from the obvious fire him as an instructor. I am hopeful there is some way to salvage this.
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Old 03-16-2021, 06:39 PM   #2  
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Sounds like they're taking you for a ride maybe to get some business out of you. Use the chain. Ask for a sit down with the Asst. Chief or the Chief Pilot and tell him/her exactly what you said here. You're a paying customer, meaningful training/debriefs are not happening and you want to know why. If they can't arbitrate and get this guy/gal to get back on course and be effective, I'd find another place to finish up.
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Old 03-16-2021, 06:49 PM   #3  
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You sound proactive, has that turned his weakness into being a passenger?

Spitball 1...away
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Old 03-16-2021, 07:04 PM   #4  
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You sound proactive, has that turned his weakness into being a passenger?

Spitball 1...away
Very likely. I show up usually more than half and hour early for each flight. Have both the commercial PTS and the flight instructor PTS with me up front on the dash as we take off and refer to it throughout the flight. I regularly have to drag information out of him.

This young man is never on time for lessons. The most recent lesson had us taking off 45 minutes after our start time yet I had arrived and preflighted nearly an hour before our flight.

I have repeatedly counseled him not to take into account my background and treat me like any other student he might instruct. I have asked for feedback after every maneuver. It is rarely offered beyond "that was good".

I've brought the horse to the river. What more can I do here?
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Old 03-16-2021, 10:58 PM   #5  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cargocapt View Post
Nearing retirement I would like to keep flying and I am renewing my flight instructor certificate to teach the next generation. I only need to renew one which renews all of them. Since I will be instructing in small Cessna type aircraft I chose to perform in a single engine Cessna.
Since you plan to be an instructor (again), it's worth noting: you don't have multiple flight instructor certificates. Just one. You have ratings on the certificate, and you will be taking a practical test for one rating. You are not renewing the flight instructor certificate. You are reinstating it.

You may also do so by adding a new category or class rating to your instructor certificate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cargocapt View Post
During the now unusually one way heated conversation, where I had to question him why he was so hostile, we went from one more flight to now four or five and the specifics are I need to know the PTS. And he is so angry he is going to charge me for the time he wasted with this conversation. Which he proply does as we are still sitting there.
The first question that springs to mind is what you're doing wasting your time with this individual. You address that in the next paragraph, noting that there are no other instructors available.

This individual may see you as competition. If you're going to be teaching at the same facility, the two of you may compete for students. At a minimum you'll be working alongside each other.

The instructor may be naturally prejudiced against airline pilots. Many in general aviation are. With good reason. As a general aviation pilot I got nauseatingly sick to my stomach listening to arrogant airline pilots tell me, "it's a shame. you'll never receive the level of training that I've had." The only thing more annoying was the odd military pilot who said the same thing. Ad nauseum.

The instructor may also be a snot nosed millennial who doesn't know what he doesn't know, but is none the less quite convinced that he does.

I'd dump him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cargocapt View Post
Though this conversation I was very calm yet mistified why this young man was suddenly so hostile towards me. This was a fairly bizarre experience. I understand flying a single engine cessna is very different from flying an heavy freighter. Given my background and experience I would like to believe I should not need this much instruction to prepare for a renewal of a flight instructor certificate. I would be interested opinions or suggestions here. Asking for yet another instructor is going to be problematic and I don't believe the school has another instructor at this level.

I'd like to see if there are other options from the obvious fire him as an instructor. I am hopeful there is some way to salvage this.
Flight instruction, as you know, has little to do with flying. It has everything to do with teaching. I'm at a loss why the emphasis on flight training and maneuvers; this is more formality. What is important is teaching, which has changed a lot in the last two decades; both the scope and nature of what's taught, and some of the fundamental ways it's done, as well as the practical standards. (PTS migrating to ACS, for example). You already know how to fly; returning to light airplanes shouldn't be a massive undertaking. Both you, and the instructor seem focused on checking boxes in the flight regime. This raises a red flag.

You indicated that this is the only instructor who meets the requirements to give you the instruction necessary for your flight instructor certificate. Why is this so?

You are not seeking an initial flight instructor certificate. A CFI giving instruction toward the initial CFI certificate, and endorsing you for the test, must have given 200 hours of flight instruction and must have held a CFI for at least 24 months. In your case, you're not seeking an initial instructor rating. You're seeking a reinstatement.

https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-id..._1195&rgn=div8

Because you are not elligible for renewal of a flight instructor certificate, your option is reinstatement. You'll need a practical test. You will need to do this by following the guidance of 14 CFR 61.199(a):

https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-id..._1199&rgn=div8

Quote:

61.199 Reinstatement requirements of an expired flight instructor certificate.

(a) Flight instructor certificates. The holder of an expired flight instructor certificate who has not complied with the flight instructor renewal requirements of 61.197 may reinstate that flight instructor certificate and ratings by filing a completed and signed application with the FAA and satisfactorily completing one of the following reinstatement requirements:

(1) A flight instructor certification practical test, as prescribed by 61.183(h), for one of the ratings held on the expired flight instructor certificate.

(2) A flight instructor certification practical test for an additional rating.
You'll need to file a completed and signed application, and complete a practical test for one of your ratings, or a new rating.

Where does this instructor fit into this, and why is he required, and the only one qualified? You see my point?
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Old 03-17-2021, 04:49 AM   #6  
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He seems insecure and not a quality instructor. I would talk to the chief. If no results, I would find someone else, even if you travel a bit.
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Old 03-17-2021, 07:25 AM   #7  
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He seems insecure and not a quality instructor. I would talk to the chief. If no results, I would find someone else, even if you travel a bit.
^^^^^ Yes, walk. Now. What BS.

Guy's probably uber-entitled and pizzed off about covid, he expected to be halfway to flowing to AA by now.
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Old 03-17-2021, 08:00 AM   #8  
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Unfortunately I hear these kind of stories way too often. This is why I will never go back to a regular flight school. Got burnt once, never again.

That said, the problem lies with the FAA and time building. There needs to be a better system in place that can stop this from happening.
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Old 03-17-2021, 11:35 AM   #9  
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From my reading of the regulations, you do not need a flight instructor sign-off or recommendation to take the practical test for reinstatement.

Joe
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Old 03-17-2021, 01:38 PM   #10  
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From my reading of the regulations, you do not need a flight instructor sign-off or recommendation to take the practical test for reinstatement.

Joe
Bingo.

As noted previously, this is not a first time instructor application. Neither is it a renewal.
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