Someone You Just Can't Teach
#11
Ethically, you should at least talk to him about the situation. He needs to hear you say that it is an uphill battle. If you are willing to go through the work required, let him know. You may have to act as a shield between him and management and possibly a DPE. I would also let the student know that achieving more advanced ratings is not advisable, at least not 141. Part 141 allows for lower training times, but demands constant, controlled training. The flexibility of Part 61 may allow an instructor to tailor the teaching to the student in a way 141 can't do.
That's really shady and lame for management to hold on to the student, knowing he is really struggling. Unethical if you ask me.
That's really shady and lame for management to hold on to the student, knowing he is really struggling. Unethical if you ask me.
#12
Something that hasn't been mentioned is your own certificates. As bad as it sounds, I think these people are the worst liablity. They see the light, or do what it takes to get the private, then kill themselves and their family in a 182 when they flake out. I've seen it happen before and guess who the feds go after...
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 361
Not everyone can be an airline pilot now matter how much they want to be.....Afirmative action only goes so far.
Before you take him up for a lesson, sit down with him and go thru the motions on the ground. Ive had students try to do a lazy 8 or a chandelle and it was like no one was flying the airplane. It turned out these students did not have a clear picture in their head of what they were supposed to be doing. Ask your student to talk you through a landing and ask him questions along the way. When he says its time for flaps, ask him why? Is he doing it by rote or does he understand that when the flaps come out, the plane changes aerodynamically. He may not have a complete understanding of why he is doing things.
Also remember, that if you sign him off you are responsible for him. I had one student I just would not sign off as I did not want the FAA and lawyers looking for me.
Before you take him up for a lesson, sit down with him and go thru the motions on the ground. Ive had students try to do a lazy 8 or a chandelle and it was like no one was flying the airplane. It turned out these students did not have a clear picture in their head of what they were supposed to be doing. Ask your student to talk you through a landing and ask him questions along the way. When he says its time for flaps, ask him why? Is he doing it by rote or does he understand that when the flaps come out, the plane changes aerodynamically. He may not have a complete understanding of why he is doing things.
Also remember, that if you sign him off you are responsible for him. I had one student I just would not sign off as I did not want the FAA and lawyers looking for me.
#14
Something that hasn't been mentioned is your own certificates. As bad as it sounds, I think these people are the worst liablity. They see the light, or do what it takes to get the private, then kill themselves and their family in a 182 when they flake out. I've seen it happen before and guess who the feds go after...
#16
Yeah right...Ethics and doing the right thing for the student...Be honest - you're there to get time in your logbooks. Thats not going to happen if you're honest with the students.
Many times FBO CFIs keep these students around so they can all share in the time building. To a FBO CFI a student is nothing more / less than time in the logbook.
Its best to avoid the FBO CFI scene and go to a dedicated flight training program.
-LAFF
Many times FBO CFIs keep these students around so they can all share in the time building. To a FBO CFI a student is nothing more / less than time in the logbook.
Its best to avoid the FBO CFI scene and go to a dedicated flight training program.
-LAFF
#17
LAFF- when was it that Love Boat went off the air again?
Others- I am not yet a CFI, preferring to play one on tv for now; but I agree if someone is pushing 100 hours for the ASEL ppl and clearly can't do basic stuff he or she is a liability to the aviation community and should be counseled to fly gliders, ultralights, and skydiving. He is not going to make the pros, but if interested should approach it from another angle like sport flying.
My drop zone has been slow lately so I used the time to get checked out in a 172 at a local operator. I did several greasers in a row. The man asked me how long until I get my teaching ticket. The man was an old older guy with 7,000 hours of instruction given. He said there are 2 things a CFI needs to do, one is teach people how to fly and the other is keep them from killing him. CFI is a noble profession, every student has your life in his or her hands. His cessnas were immaculate inside and out, I did a double take when I saw our 172M thinking this plane must be an SP.
Anyway, dangerous people do not need to be encouraged to do dangerous activities. If someone displays a serious lack of talent suggesting they are unable to control what they are doing even in basic manuevers, they should be removed from the airplane. I know it is heartbreaking, but it must be done.
Others- I am not yet a CFI, preferring to play one on tv for now; but I agree if someone is pushing 100 hours for the ASEL ppl and clearly can't do basic stuff he or she is a liability to the aviation community and should be counseled to fly gliders, ultralights, and skydiving. He is not going to make the pros, but if interested should approach it from another angle like sport flying.
My drop zone has been slow lately so I used the time to get checked out in a 172 at a local operator. I did several greasers in a row. The man asked me how long until I get my teaching ticket. The man was an old older guy with 7,000 hours of instruction given. He said there are 2 things a CFI needs to do, one is teach people how to fly and the other is keep them from killing him. CFI is a noble profession, every student has your life in his or her hands. His cessnas were immaculate inside and out, I did a double take when I saw our 172M thinking this plane must be an SP.
Anyway, dangerous people do not need to be encouraged to do dangerous activities. If someone displays a serious lack of talent suggesting they are unable to control what they are doing even in basic manuevers, they should be removed from the airplane. I know it is heartbreaking, but it must be done.
Last edited by Cubdriver; 06-10-2007 at 02:14 PM.
#18
Yeah right...Ethics and doing the right thing for the student...Be honest - you're there to get time in your logbooks. Thats not going to happen if you're honest with the students.
Many times FBO CFIs keep these students around so they can all share in the time building. To a FBO CFI a student is nothing more / less than time in the logbook.
Its best to avoid the FBO CFI scene and go to a dedicated flight training program.
-LAFF
Many times FBO CFIs keep these students around so they can all share in the time building. To a FBO CFI a student is nothing more / less than time in the logbook.
Its best to avoid the FBO CFI scene and go to a dedicated flight training program.
-LAFF
#19
LAFF
You are an idiot. There's no nice way of putting it. At the "evil" FBO, your reputation is what brings you students. Most don't advertise. The advertisement is word-of-mouth. I'm really getting tired of your bashing CFIs. Go waste your money at ATP and shut up. You'll be lucky to get through all your ratings without having weeks of stoppages while the CFIs get their hours and move on as fast as possible. Think that's a great way to learn? Have fun.
What happens at ATP when you don't complete a rating in the program's designated time? Guess what, they don't let you keep logging time for free. They charge you for hours, shuffle you to the back, or kick you out costing you tons of money too.
You are an idiot. There's no nice way of putting it. At the "evil" FBO, your reputation is what brings you students. Most don't advertise. The advertisement is word-of-mouth. I'm really getting tired of your bashing CFIs. Go waste your money at ATP and shut up. You'll be lucky to get through all your ratings without having weeks of stoppages while the CFIs get their hours and move on as fast as possible. Think that's a great way to learn? Have fun.
What happens at ATP when you don't complete a rating in the program's designated time? Guess what, they don't let you keep logging time for free. They charge you for hours, shuffle you to the back, or kick you out costing you tons of money too.
#20
LAFF
You are an idiot. There's no nice way of putting it. At the "evil" FBO, your reputation is what brings you students. Most don't advertise. The advertisement is word-of-mouth. I'm really getting tired of your bashing CFIs. Go waste your money at ATP and shut up. You'll be lucky to get through all your ratings without having weeks of stoppages while the CFIs get their hours and move on as fast as possible. Think that's a great way to learn? Have fun.
What happens at ATP when you don't complete a rating in the program's designated time? Guess what, they don't let you keep logging time for free. They charge you for hours, shuffle you to the back, or kick you out costing you tons of money too.
You are an idiot. There's no nice way of putting it. At the "evil" FBO, your reputation is what brings you students. Most don't advertise. The advertisement is word-of-mouth. I'm really getting tired of your bashing CFIs. Go waste your money at ATP and shut up. You'll be lucky to get through all your ratings without having weeks of stoppages while the CFIs get their hours and move on as fast as possible. Think that's a great way to learn? Have fun.
What happens at ATP when you don't complete a rating in the program's designated time? Guess what, they don't let you keep logging time for free. They charge you for hours, shuffle you to the back, or kick you out costing you tons of money too.
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