Timmay

For all you instructors out there, what was the toughest student you've ever dealt with, and how did you make things finally work out? Have you ever run across someone that you just can't seem to make things make sense, regardless of the angle or simplicity of what you're teaching?

I have had a student for over a year now, got assigned as his instructor after four other instructors lost patience. My student is now approaching 100 hours in the plane, with nearly as much time in the sims as well, plus countless hours of oral time. I have managed to help this student through the initial solo as well as a few local practice area solos, but the rest of the private pilot training has just been "one step forward, two steps back" for the last eight months.

I teach at a Part 142 university and we have a syllabus to follow, so that's a huge pain. It still doesn't change the fact that everything new to this student takes three times as long to learn as everyone else, and in that time my student will have forgotten everything leading up to it (ie. take two weeks to learn what soft/short field landings are, and forget everything ever taught about ground ref. maneuvers). Management, for who knows what sick and twisted reason, is compelled to keep this student around and tells me every week to keep up with the progress.

I am not a bad instructor, I have had numerous students during this period go from 0 hours through instrument and commercial multi-engine, all while still trying to figure out how to make things click for my "challenge".

The hardest part about it all is that this student is one of the nicest guys I've ever run across, totally dedicated and passionate about aviation, wants to make a career out of it, absolutely loves it. He just can't seem to make anything happen correctly. The one thing that sets him apart from the vast majority of the other students I've dealt with is age...he is just a few years younger than my mother, so he has been out of college for some time. Yet I know there are non-traditional students that pursue pilot training with favorable results.

I don't know, I'm eternally patient and will never lose my temper in front of a student, but it's just been getting to the point lately where I have no idea what to do and I just wish somebody would save him the trouble and money and say "You might think about something else for a living". I'm ready to give up on him, reached my breaking point.

Thoughts?

pete2800

First off, let me say that I am not an instructor, so the following can be taken or left at your discretion.

If I were you, I would probably recommend that he fly with a different instructor for a while. I am not trying to imply that you are a "bad instructor," its just that sometimes you click with a student, and sometimes not. In my training, I have had several instructors. Some I have worked with extremely well, others did not click as much. Sometimes, a simple change in teaching style can help. The only other thing I can recommend is that you get advice on how to deal with him from other instructors.....which is exactly what you are doing here....so, um, good job.

-Ben

cl601pilot

You have what is known as a cash cow. Dont ruin him. He may be good for a whole lot of multi time. cha ching.

planecrazyjenn

Definitely try to help him out while on the ground. I know as a CFI, you want to build time...but for him it's frustrating to keep buying hours, only to struggle with something. What in particular is he having problems with? Drawing things out has always been a helper for me. Give him scenarios on the ground, and get him in a simulator...even if it's just FS2004. I have no doubts your a good instructor and you know the whole sha-bang on teaching it on the ground v. the air with all the addtional stresses - noise, ATC, vibrations, etc.

ppilot

I'm sure there are a lot of people that just can't be taught to fly, period. But...you say this person is passionate about it, and dedicated to it, and I'm assuming from what you say has some intelligence.

The guy's been through 4 instructors that 'lost patience with him'. I'm sure he know's he's having a harder time than most people. Whatever the problem is, he's probably afraid you're going to leave him too.

You say you're not a bad instructor (I'm sure you're not!) Now you're given a chance to prove that you can be a GOOD instructor. I can't tell you what will make it break through for your challenge, but I'll give some examples that may or may not help.

I've found that people that 'once they learn something they forget everything up until now' are often highly visually oriented. I've had a lot of success with them by supplemented preflight briefings with a very simple, large print 'briefing card' that they can bring into the airplane with them, as well as take home and study. Just the high points, very simple - to the visually oriented, an outline will be all they need.

Never, ever spend an entire lesson going over the current thing you're working on (I'm not 141, so I don't know if you can actually do this.)

Sometimes it'll be something really weird, but if you can figure it out, this'll be the best that teaching can be. Several times I've had breakthroughs by doing 3 lessons without a radio. Radio communication really stresses a lot of people out.

On a related note, my biggest challenge, I was ready to have 'the talk'. If I remember correctly, she had about 60 hours, hadn't soloed, been through instructor after instructor, etc. She'd never done a landing where I didn't have to touch the controls...couldn't tell if she was too high or too low, always flared too high, everything was just wrong. On a whim, just for something fun, I took her for a flight in a glider, and I was stunned...stunned, she just NAILED the first landing in the thing. We went up again, did airwork, more landings, everything was just 100% better. I came to realize that the sound of the engine, and having to talk and listen above it was causing her great stress, but when she discovered she could do it in the glider, it transferred over to the powered aircraft, and she was able to go on and get her license, instrument, and commercial ratings.

I don't know if any of this helps, but I hope it'll encourage you to find some patience and try to find a way to help this person.

Pilotpip

I was given a couple of these "special works projects" as I liked to call them. I got one through the private after 130 hours (only about 60 with me). I had one other that I made no progress with, and had no intrest. I think the parents were wanting this more than the student. And I had to convince the third one to quit flying. Some people just aren't cut out for it.

More often than not, when I had a student who was having issues I found one thing worked better than others. Simplify. Have them work on one element of whatever you're doing without any regard for the others. For example. When in the pattern, have them focus on keeping centerline with no regard for airspeed or rate. Next, have them do the airspeed, and then combine pieces to "build them back up". It has worked well for me.

If all of the instructors have made an honest attempt at teaching and gone beyond the call of duty for this student it may be time to tell them to move on. They're only wasting money.

rickair7777

I agree with Pilotpip. I've had projects too, and you cannot always win.

I would be more optomistic with a lazy youngster than a struggling old guy...the kid can probably come around with a simple attitude adjustment. But older folks frankly have a harder time learning new tricks (especially multi-taskng). Since this guy has a good attitude, puts in the effort, has had multiple instructors, and still is stuck at the student pilot level I am not optimistic...

If he wanted to be a cost-no-object private pilot, you could probably work him through it eventually. But as a commercial type, he's going to REALLY struggle with the instrument rating, and I would almost guarantee that he will bomb CFI or airline new-hire training, whichever he tries first.

I suspect you need to have a heart-to-heart, brutally honest talk with the guy. This is about the toughest part of the CFI job, but sometimes you have to do it...and your school's managers may not encourage you to go there (they probably just want to rip the guy off for as long as possible). Only you can make the call though.

jedinein

I've had a few project students over the last six years. Some have laid off flying for years without ever picking up a book, some never finished their ratings, some just take awhile while they are in training.
-Highest hours to get through PPSEL: 500 hours (quit 3 times in 40 years).
-Highest hours to get a BFR & IPC: 75
-Highest number of checkride re-takes: 5 (no FSDO investigation, DPE knew the guy)

If they are still showing up, still fighting for it, keep working with them. When they pass it is the highest of highs.

Fly SAFE!

rickair7777

I agree with you that with enough time, money, and effort you can brute-force private pilot training. But from my perspective as an experienced CFI and airline guy, the student in question seems pretty unlikely to achieve his commercial flying aspirations. Airlines and other commercial operators give very little remedial training, and the pace and subject complexity is at least five times more challenging than PP training.

Ewfflyer

I'm a CFI-I with 11 passes(9ppls). I had a student like this, but it was part 61, and he is just going for the private, no commercial future. Anyways, he was a "hand-me-down" for me, the new guy. Already had 25-30hrs, no solo. I soloed him at 45hrs, but didn't solo him again until 90. He was signed off for the Check-Ride at 186. This guy had passion and desire to get it, I wasn't there to stop him. He had many 1-step forward, 2 back days, but flying for him was very unnatural for some reason or other. Since I'm very patient, I could handle all the up and downs associated with this student.

So basically my advice is, if this student has the goal of being a commercial pilot, it seems as if it's going to be a very long and expensive road to it, and they should be made aware of that. If it's just a goal of being a pilot, keep your patience, and help them realize that goal. It's a worthwhile and rewarding day when they pass their ride. Good luck!