Should I stay or should I go?
04-05-2022, 04:59 PM
#1
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2022
Position: Cherokee FO
Posts: 31
Should I stay or should I go?
I am a student at a major 141 university in the Midwest.
I've done most of the coursework for the professional flight degree, minus some classes which are prerequisites for each other.
I was planning on starting Instruments this May but didn't get a seat due to weather delays on my private checkride.
There is a possibility I could start Instruments in July, which would put me on track to have that checkride mid-October.
Commercial Single & Multi would be tougher to segue into mid-semester and I would probably end up graduating in July '23, possibly with a CFI if they let me double up with the Multi coursework.
The university is notorious for long waitlists for the multi course, as well as a revolving door for MEI's getting their call to the Regionals, so there are no guarantees on finish dates, just my estimates assuming aggressive scheduling.
If I took this path I would drop below full time (unless I started signing up for filler classes) and have to start paying back FAFSA, as well as finding short-term housing in a fairly rough city.
The cost estimate to get through Commercial Multi here is about $46,000, plus tuition, room and board, so likely altogether about $60,000.
I am eligible to apply to graduate with a General Studies degree, likely after taking some diversity/humanities course(s), which could be as soon as this coming August (22).
This would make me ineligible for the 1000 hour letter and unlikely to be hired as a CFI internally.
I would also need to start paying back FAFSA and find housing and employment.
If I was to get the general studies BA and go to Arizona somewhere like ATP or CAE, I could get through Commercial Multi and CFI for about $68,000 in 5-7 months, which would get me instructing or eligible for pt135 gigs in Jan-March '23. However the housing and up front costs are significant, plus food, gas and incidentals, so the cost altogether before I started getting a paycheck would be probably in the low-mid $80,000 range.
If I stay I'd get the "official" flight degree and the RATP letter and an all-but-guaranteed job in the middle of the coming recession. I can punt the costs down the road and make it a problem for Future Me. However there's no guarantee of an end date which makes things a little hairier especially with the current hiring bonanza.
If I left I'd have to bear those costs up front (or kill my credit) but the light at the end of the tunnel would be closer. I'd also have an all-but-worthless degree, so if I had to pivot to another career that would be an uphill battle, but I wouldn't have to deal with the ******ING SNOW!!!!!
Both places have hiring arrangements, I am not married to anything (especially in the current era of fluid requirements) but I would like to aim myself at Purple or Brown, so wherever I can make decent money/decent QOL/build turbine time before the next thing.
I guess the ultimate question is which is worth more: a four month head start versus 500 fewer hours instructing.
I've done most of the coursework for the professional flight degree, minus some classes which are prerequisites for each other.
I was planning on starting Instruments this May but didn't get a seat due to weather delays on my private checkride.
There is a possibility I could start Instruments in July, which would put me on track to have that checkride mid-October.
Commercial Single & Multi would be tougher to segue into mid-semester and I would probably end up graduating in July '23, possibly with a CFI if they let me double up with the Multi coursework.
The university is notorious for long waitlists for the multi course, as well as a revolving door for MEI's getting their call to the Regionals, so there are no guarantees on finish dates, just my estimates assuming aggressive scheduling.
If I took this path I would drop below full time (unless I started signing up for filler classes) and have to start paying back FAFSA, as well as finding short-term housing in a fairly rough city.
The cost estimate to get through Commercial Multi here is about $46,000, plus tuition, room and board, so likely altogether about $60,000.
I am eligible to apply to graduate with a General Studies degree, likely after taking some diversity/humanities course(s), which could be as soon as this coming August (22).
This would make me ineligible for the 1000 hour letter and unlikely to be hired as a CFI internally.
I would also need to start paying back FAFSA and find housing and employment.
If I was to get the general studies BA and go to Arizona somewhere like ATP or CAE, I could get through Commercial Multi and CFI for about $68,000 in 5-7 months, which would get me instructing or eligible for pt135 gigs in Jan-March '23. However the housing and up front costs are significant, plus food, gas and incidentals, so the cost altogether before I started getting a paycheck would be probably in the low-mid $80,000 range.
If I stay I'd get the "official" flight degree and the RATP letter and an all-but-guaranteed job in the middle of the coming recession. I can punt the costs down the road and make it a problem for Future Me. However there's no guarantee of an end date which makes things a little hairier especially with the current hiring bonanza.
If I left I'd have to bear those costs up front (or kill my credit) but the light at the end of the tunnel would be closer. I'd also have an all-but-worthless degree, so if I had to pivot to another career that would be an uphill battle, but I wouldn't have to deal with the ******ING SNOW!!!!!
Both places have hiring arrangements, I am not married to anything (especially in the current era of fluid requirements) but I would like to aim myself at Purple or Brown, so wherever I can make decent money/decent QOL/build turbine time before the next thing.
I guess the ultimate question is which is worth more: a four month head start versus 500 fewer hours instructing.
04-28-2022, 07:42 AM
#2
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2021
Posts: 41
Just curious, how did you finish up so much of the coursework for the degree without getting your ratings past the PPL? Seems like you would have had to be there for quite a while to have the coursework done? Have you been waitlisted for the instrument labs that long?
Not wanting to be in a similar situation is why my son has decided against going the University route. We live very close to a large university here that has a fine program, but he simply doesnt want to take the chance of having his career pushed back 6 months at a time for labs being full for whole semesters. He is just going to live with the "extra" 500 hours and CFI locally while getting a business degree. Plus the local school guarantees a $40/hr CFI job if you get your ratings with them.
I don't think that answers much for you - sorry - but may serve as another data point for others looking at a University program. Ask a lot of questions about labs being full / instructor availability, etc. The more I asked, the less straight answers I got. Red flag.
Not wanting to be in a similar situation is why my son has decided against going the University route. We live very close to a large university here that has a fine program, but he simply doesnt want to take the chance of having his career pushed back 6 months at a time for labs being full for whole semesters. He is just going to live with the "extra" 500 hours and CFI locally while getting a business degree. Plus the local school guarantees a $40/hr CFI job if you get your ratings with them.
I don't think that answers much for you - sorry - but may serve as another data point for others looking at a University program. Ask a lot of questions about labs being full / instructor availability, etc. The more I asked, the less straight answers I got. Red flag.
05-02-2022, 09:07 PM
#3
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Posts: 90
Originally Posted by onepoint5thumbs
I am a student at a major 141 university in the Midwest.
I've done most of the coursework for the professional flight degree, minus some classes which are prerequisites for each other.
I was planning on starting Instruments this May but didn't get a seat due to weather delays on my private checkride.
There is a possibility I could start Instruments in July, which would put me on track to have that checkride mid-October.
Commercial Single & Multi would be tougher to segue into mid-semester and I would probably end up graduating in July '23, possibly with a CFI if they let me double up with the Multi coursework.
The university is notorious for long waitlists for the multi course, as well as a revolving door for MEI's getting their call to the Regionals, so there are no guarantees on finish dates, just my estimates assuming aggressive scheduling.
If I took this path I would drop below full time (unless I started signing up for filler classes) and have to start paying back FAFSA, as well as finding short-term housing in a fairly rough city.
The cost estimate to get through Commercial Multi here is about $46,000, plus tuition, room and board, so likely altogether about $60,000.
I am eligible to apply to graduate with a General Studies degree, likely after taking some diversity/humanities course(s), which could be as soon as this coming August (22).
This would make me ineligible for the 1000 hour letter and unlikely to be hired as a CFI internally.
I would also need to start paying back FAFSA and find housing and employment.
If I was to get the general studies BA and go to Arizona somewhere like ATP or CAE, I could get through Commercial Multi and CFI for about $68,000 in 5-7 months, which would get me instructing or eligible for pt135 gigs in Jan-March '23. However the housing and up front costs are significant, plus food, gas and incidentals, so the cost altogether before I started getting a paycheck would be probably in the low-mid $80,000 range.
If I stay I'd get the "official" flight degree and the RATP letter and an all-but-guaranteed job in the middle of the coming recession. I can punt the costs down the road and make it a problem for Future Me. However there's no guarantee of an end date which makes things a little hairier especially with the current hiring bonanza.
If I left I'd have to bear those costs up front (or kill my credit) but the light at the end of the tunnel would be closer. I'd also have an all-but-worthless degree, so if I had to pivot to another career that would be an uphill battle, but I wouldn't have to deal with the ******ING SNOW!!!!!
Both places have hiring arrangements, I am not married to anything (especially in the current era of fluid requirements) but I would like to aim myself at Purple or Brown, so wherever I can make decent money/decent QOL/build turbine time before the next thing.
I guess the ultimate question is which is worth more: a four month head start versus 500 fewer hours instructing.
I've done most of the coursework for the professional flight degree, minus some classes which are prerequisites for each other.
I was planning on starting Instruments this May but didn't get a seat due to weather delays on my private checkride.
There is a possibility I could start Instruments in July, which would put me on track to have that checkride mid-October.
Commercial Single & Multi would be tougher to segue into mid-semester and I would probably end up graduating in July '23, possibly with a CFI if they let me double up with the Multi coursework.
The university is notorious for long waitlists for the multi course, as well as a revolving door for MEI's getting their call to the Regionals, so there are no guarantees on finish dates, just my estimates assuming aggressive scheduling.
If I took this path I would drop below full time (unless I started signing up for filler classes) and have to start paying back FAFSA, as well as finding short-term housing in a fairly rough city.
The cost estimate to get through Commercial Multi here is about $46,000, plus tuition, room and board, so likely altogether about $60,000.
I am eligible to apply to graduate with a General Studies degree, likely after taking some diversity/humanities course(s), which could be as soon as this coming August (22).
This would make me ineligible for the 1000 hour letter and unlikely to be hired as a CFI internally.
I would also need to start paying back FAFSA and find housing and employment.
If I was to get the general studies BA and go to Arizona somewhere like ATP or CAE, I could get through Commercial Multi and CFI for about $68,000 in 5-7 months, which would get me instructing or eligible for pt135 gigs in Jan-March '23. However the housing and up front costs are significant, plus food, gas and incidentals, so the cost altogether before I started getting a paycheck would be probably in the low-mid $80,000 range.
If I stay I'd get the "official" flight degree and the RATP letter and an all-but-guaranteed job in the middle of the coming recession. I can punt the costs down the road and make it a problem for Future Me. However there's no guarantee of an end date which makes things a little hairier especially with the current hiring bonanza.
If I left I'd have to bear those costs up front (or kill my credit) but the light at the end of the tunnel would be closer. I'd also have an all-but-worthless degree, so if I had to pivot to another career that would be an uphill battle, but I wouldn't have to deal with the ******ING SNOW!!!!!
Both places have hiring arrangements, I am not married to anything (especially in the current era of fluid requirements) but I would like to aim myself at Purple or Brown, so wherever I can make decent money/decent QOL/build turbine time before the next thing.
I guess the ultimate question is which is worth more: a four month head start versus 500 fewer hours instructing.
Go start flying for a living ASAP. Get whatever degree you want (underwater basket weaving) online. It doesn't matter. No one cares at any of the airlines. Just keep your record clean of incidents and accidents or violations. After regionals and or Ameriflight type gig and some PIC turbine time you'll be flying for UPS, FedEx or a Major people hauler in 5 years. Have fun!! You're going to make millions.
05-05-2022, 12:11 PM
#4
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2022
Position: Cherokee FO
Posts: 31
Originally Posted by hifiaudio177
Just curious, how did you finish up so much of the coursework for the degree without getting your ratings past the PPL? Seems like you would have had to be there for quite a while to have the coursework done? Have you been waitlisted for the instrument labs that long?
Not wanting to be in a similar situation is why my son has decided against going the University route. We live very close to a large university here that has a fine program, but he simply doesnt want to take the chance of having his career pushed back 6 months at a time for labs being full for whole semesters. He is just going to live with the "extra" 500 hours and CFI locally while getting a business degree. Plus the local school guarantees a $40/hr CFI job if you get your ratings with them.
I don't think that answers much for you - sorry - but may serve as another data point for others looking at a University program. Ask a lot of questions about labs being full / instructor availability, etc. The more I asked, the less straight answers I got. Red flag.
Not wanting to be in a similar situation is why my son has decided against going the University route. We live very close to a large university here that has a fine program, but he simply doesnt want to take the chance of having his career pushed back 6 months at a time for labs being full for whole semesters. He is just going to live with the "extra" 500 hours and CFI locally while getting a business degree. Plus the local school guarantees a $40/hr CFI job if you get your ratings with them.
I don't think that answers much for you - sorry - but may serve as another data point for others looking at a University program. Ask a lot of questions about labs being full / instructor availability, etc. The more I asked, the less straight answers I got. Red flag.
The school has fairly short windows to sign up for 141 instruction (i.e. PPL by July 1 to start in September). I would be taking nothing but flying classes and a single academic course each semester from July onward.
05-05-2022, 12:25 PM
#5
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2019
Posts: 48
Originally Posted by onepoint5thumbs
I am a student at a major 141 university in the Midwest.
I've done most of the coursework for the professional flight degree, minus some classes which are prerequisites for each other.
I was planning on starting Instruments this May but didn't get a seat due to weather delays on my private checkride.
There is a possibility I could start Instruments in July, which would put me on track to have that checkride mid-October.
Commercial Single & Multi would be tougher to segue into mid-semester and I would probably end up graduating in July '23, possibly with a CFI if they let me double up with the Multi coursework.
The university is notorious for long waitlists for the multi course, as well as a revolving door for MEI's getting their call to the Regionals, so there are no guarantees on finish dates, just my estimates assuming aggressive scheduling.
If I took this path I would drop below full time (unless I started signing up for filler classes) and have to start paying back FAFSA, as well as finding short-term housing in a fairly rough city.
The cost estimate to get through Commercial Multi here is about $46,000, plus tuition, room and board, so likely altogether about $60,000.
I am eligible to apply to graduate with a General Studies degree, likely after taking some diversity/humanities course(s), which could be as soon as this coming August (22).
This would make me ineligible for the 1000 hour letter and unlikely to be hired as a CFI internally.
I would also need to start paying back FAFSA and find housing and employment.
If I was to get the general studies BA and go to Arizona somewhere like ATP or CAE, I could get through Commercial Multi and CFI for about $68,000 in 5-7 months, which would get me instructing or eligible for pt135 gigs in Jan-March '23. However the housing and up front costs are significant, plus food, gas and incidentals, so the cost altogether before I started getting a paycheck would be probably in the low-mid $80,000 range.
If I stay I'd get the "official" flight degree and the RATP letter and an all-but-guaranteed job in the middle of the coming recession. I can punt the costs down the road and make it a problem for Future Me. However there's no guarantee of an end date which makes things a little hairier especially with the current hiring bonanza.
If I left I'd have to bear those costs up front (or kill my credit) but the light at the end of the tunnel would be closer. I'd also have an all-but-worthless degree, so if I had to pivot to another career that would be an uphill battle, but I wouldn't have to deal with the ******ING SNOW!!!!!
Both places have hiring arrangements, I am not married to anything (especially in the current era of fluid requirements) but I would like to aim myself at Purple or Brown, so wherever I can make decent money/decent QOL/build turbine time before the next thing.
I guess the ultimate question is which is worth more: a four month head start versus 500 fewer hours instructing.
I've done most of the coursework for the professional flight degree, minus some classes which are prerequisites for each other.
I was planning on starting Instruments this May but didn't get a seat due to weather delays on my private checkride.
There is a possibility I could start Instruments in July, which would put me on track to have that checkride mid-October.
Commercial Single & Multi would be tougher to segue into mid-semester and I would probably end up graduating in July '23, possibly with a CFI if they let me double up with the Multi coursework.
The university is notorious for long waitlists for the multi course, as well as a revolving door for MEI's getting their call to the Regionals, so there are no guarantees on finish dates, just my estimates assuming aggressive scheduling.
If I took this path I would drop below full time (unless I started signing up for filler classes) and have to start paying back FAFSA, as well as finding short-term housing in a fairly rough city.
The cost estimate to get through Commercial Multi here is about $46,000, plus tuition, room and board, so likely altogether about $60,000.
I am eligible to apply to graduate with a General Studies degree, likely after taking some diversity/humanities course(s), which could be as soon as this coming August (22).
This would make me ineligible for the 1000 hour letter and unlikely to be hired as a CFI internally.
I would also need to start paying back FAFSA and find housing and employment.
If I was to get the general studies BA and go to Arizona somewhere like ATP or CAE, I could get through Commercial Multi and CFI for about $68,000 in 5-7 months, which would get me instructing or eligible for pt135 gigs in Jan-March '23. However the housing and up front costs are significant, plus food, gas and incidentals, so the cost altogether before I started getting a paycheck would be probably in the low-mid $80,000 range.
If I stay I'd get the "official" flight degree and the RATP letter and an all-but-guaranteed job in the middle of the coming recession. I can punt the costs down the road and make it a problem for Future Me. However there's no guarantee of an end date which makes things a little hairier especially with the current hiring bonanza.
If I left I'd have to bear those costs up front (or kill my credit) but the light at the end of the tunnel would be closer. I'd also have an all-but-worthless degree, so if I had to pivot to another career that would be an uphill battle, but I wouldn't have to deal with the ******ING SNOW!!!!!
Both places have hiring arrangements, I am not married to anything (especially in the current era of fluid requirements) but I would like to aim myself at Purple or Brown, so wherever I can make decent money/decent QOL/build turbine time before the next thing.
I guess the ultimate question is which is worth more: a four month head start versus 500 fewer hours instructing.
Having said that, start flying ASAP. The 1,000 v 1,500 hr thing really is inconsequential, especially once you are in the 121 world. It will take you MUCH longer to get the aviation degree than to get the 500 hrs with a non aviation degree.
05-06-2022, 08:43 AM
#6
Occasional box hauler
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,683
If 121 airline jobs are the goal you need two things ASAP. Your FAA ratings and a bachelors degree. The first is essential, the second will move you past otherwise better qualified applicants who don’t have one. You should be flying your butt off to knock out the ratings and build the 1500 hours you will need. The number of jobs available to a commercial pilot with less than 1500 hours is increasing as the airlines hoover up every warm body, so you shouldn’t have to pay for that time with anything more than subpar pay and work hours. Get your ratings and start working ASAP. You should have enough credits to knock out an online degree in something in your off time. The next few years while you jump through these hoops will not be financially rewarding, but they can be fun. The flying at your career stage is harder, but more interesting than what you will do at a top tier airline. Good luck!
05-17-2022, 01:24 PM
#7
On Reserve
Joined APC: May 2022
Posts: 23
Originally Posted by tnkrdrvr
If 121 airline jobs are the goal you need two things ASAP. Your FAA ratings and a bachelors degree. The first is essential, the second will move you past otherwise better qualified applicants who don’t have one. You should be flying your butt off to knock out the ratings and build the 1500 hours you will need. The number of jobs available to a commercial pilot with less than 1500 hours is increasing as the airlines hoover up every warm body, so you shouldn’t have to pay for that time with anything more than subpar pay and work hours. Get your ratings and start working ASAP. You should have enough credits to knock out an online degree in something in your off time. The next few years while you jump through these hoops will not be financially rewarding, but they can be fun. The flying at your career stage is harder, but more interesting than what you will do at a top tier airline. Good luck!
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