Flight School Over Charge-How to deal?
 

I m getting training in local FBO; and they have been over charged for things that i never do with my CFI.

Every time i m flying with them they charge me (0.2 hr pre + 0.2 hr post) plus the actual fly time.

I did each pre flight myself, and the CFI only sign the logbook after flight, I still got the charge.

If only 0.5 hr actual ground school, they will bill me 1 full hour.

Their rate is high consider their size ($60 PPL, $65 CPL, $75 CFI).

I also feel their instruction aren't that good standard.

This is a new FBO for me; and it never happened when I was in other flight schools.

Is this common, and how you usually deal with this?:confused:

I m thinking about use my timer.....

Talk about it with your CFI and let him know if you're charged for his service, that you expect to receive his service with respect to pre and post flight briefings.

There are many ways to deal with this, but remember that YOU are the customer and if you're not happy with the instruction - go somewhere else!

Usually, you deal with it by taking your business elsewhere. Remember, you are the customer, they should be catering to you. Not every place is good, but most are at least fair with their pricing. Also, instructors are paid to teach you, not there to build flight hours. If they aren't providing you with adequate and knowledgeable service, than don't' provide them with income.

Thats the Norm if I sign a logbook its .2. I have never signed a logbook without providing some feedback on the days lesson or on the next lesson as well, if its a good instructor all your going to do is **** them off if not don't pay it and move on instrustors don't get paid a darn thing so if they are worth it pay em if not screw em. If an instructor wants to they can turn every pre and post flight in to a 2-3hr deal or they can charge you the .2/ .5 and give you what you need for what you need.

I think the issue is what does the .2 represent, fact or fiction. If there was no preflight why should he be paying for it? I understand instructors are underpaid, but that is not the issue and it does not rationalize charging for services not rendered. It sounds to me like he is paying an exhorbitant hourly rate already, so that makes chiseling all the more inappropriate on the part of the FBO and his instructor.

My experience was that my CFI watched as I did preflight checks and usually helped do the tie down as well. There was give and take in the time clock, that if we flew perhaps only 15 minutes before realizing the weather was rapidly closing in and I did everything anyway, he would not charge a whole hour on account that he really did nothing other than show up. Ground school is "clock on" though, and should be charged as such. FBOs need to make money and one should expect to be charged for services rendered.

If I were this guy I would say to my CFI hey, I will preflight the plane before you get there since you never do anything during that time except charge me. If he says no, I think I would consider walking. But if the CFI is actually watching the pre-and post-flights, and even giving some evaluations and other tips at those times, then clock is "on" in my humble opinion. I used to show up at the airport early, preflight the plane, then meet my instructor for the ground lesson and flight. They were not paid for the preflights but were paid for the postflight wrapup since they were giving me feedback.

One other thought, and I admit this is somewhat contradictory. After a teacher student relationship is established one should try and stick with that teacher. Only if there is a serious problem besides a little time disagreement, should they quit and go elsewhere. There is a trust element in it at that point.

How far into the training are you? Ask the instructor for his reasoning behind the charge. If he seems angry that you asked or brushes you off without explaining, then be prepared to find a new instructor. Some CFIs are very anal about their time, more than they should be. Yeah time is important, and yes they are underpaid. However, a good instructor doesn't need to nickel and dime a student to make a living. Find out the reason and see if it makes sense to you.

I did not read the entire post the instructor rate is crazy I would be ****ed if they charged 60 bucks and 75... WTF Get the timer and if they talk about anything but aviation the clock stops I would leave for GP. The CFI is almost all ground at 75 bucks and hr I would laugh in their face. My flight school rented airplanes last year for 75 bucks. The instructor rate was 35-40bucks.

I always have a discussion for at least 30 minutes after the flight on the stuff i did, etc, plus things i will be doing on the next flight. when i was doing my ppl i didnt like the way my first instructor taught, and never had the guts to tell him that until after my solo. look at it this way, your paying for a service and you want to learn as much as you can, so dont be afraid to give him a boot.

As a flight instructor, I charge my students for all time spent teaching or discussing the lesson. This usually equated to .4-.5 above that time spent in the aircraft. I always found that at a bare minimum, there was .3 to add on each lesson (that said, I also would go out with a PPL student and do the preflight with them), and we discussed the lesson before hand each time as well.

Personally, I think that $60/hr for a CFI is too much. If you're willing to pay that, no problem- I wouldn't. But if you feel like you are being charged for time that you didn't get, sit and have a chat with your instructor. If that doesn't work, talk with his boss. If after that, you don't feel satisfied, find another flight school.

Remember- they are there to provide YOU a service (and an expensive one at that). Finding some place that you are happy with is a huge part of successful training.

This kind of attitude really gets to me. It's nothing personal but when I was working on my private or any other rating for that matter .2 is not the time you spent to sign my logbook and debrief me. You do realize that .2 is 12 minutes? To sign a logbook maybe 30 seconds and to debrief a flight in the practice area MAYBE 5 mins. Thats just for a standard flight with no big issues.

Some instructors think that the pre brief oral time is when they start walking out the door to the line, walking around the airplane to do their preflight, talking on their cell phone, letting you know how their weekend went...this isn't oral time. There are certain assumed responsibilities as a flight instructor which can't be neglected.

We were all students once, there is no reason to overcharge just because you are making a poor wage. I'm not saying undercharge but certainly don't overcharge. It is imperative as a flight instructor (and a business person) to charge fairly because that reflects upon your student. When they become a CFI they will model your attitude and actions. We aren't in the business of taking peoples money rather helping them learn to fly.

Yeah yeah, all flight instructors screw their students. All flight schools screw their employees. All airlines are out to screw their pilots and customers. All unions are out to screw their pilots and the airlines. On and on ad naseum. Would you like some cheese with that whine?

If you have a concern about charges and are not receiving the desired value, discuss it with your instructor. You are the paying client and can decide to not pay further at any time. However, should you decide to not pay, expect the CFI to not instruct you further.

Regards,

A really expensive CFI

That really added a lot to the discussion!

I doubt very highly that the CFI is seeing any more than half of that $60 or whatever per hour. The FBO is taking the rest, and probably telling him that part of his job is to charge a certain amount. I used to work for a place that had similar rules. I'd bill my students for the time spent in the FBO so that the boss would leave me alone. Then the real instruction took place away from the airport, for the price of maybe dinner and/or a couple beers.

When I was getting training, my favorite instructor would do the same thing. He was like, "I'm on salary, so I'm not going to charge you for ground school." I really appreciated this, as the money I was paying is still accruing interest. While I wasn't on salary, I remembered what it was like to be cut a little slack and helped out from time to time and I was happy to do the same for my students.

So like most people have said, find somebody/someplace you like because it'll make everything about learning to fly easier and more fun.

You worked out of PTK on the south side of the field I'm betting. Just a guess since you're obviously a redwings fan

As a CFI at my Flight School, I was directly in charge of writing down the hours spent on both the plane and myself. I would always discuss on the first lesson or two about how I charge for my services and what my expectations are vs. the students expectations for myself. An avg. where there was just a flight, not any "new" ground discussion, more of a pre/post flight breif, there was .3-.4 depending on how much the student forgot about the man. prior, or how bad they messed up during the flight.

I did the same thing for the "Fly for Food" type of training. Especially doing the X-C's, we'd go to JXN and for a meal, I'd knock off an hour(which saved them a ton of $$$$ and I had a good meal with a fellow pilot). It's ironic that over a meal it seems that discussions seem to really take on a stronger effect on their perceptions and learning of whatever topic is at hand. A lot of it I believe is the more relaxed environment and the fact that there's no one else there to judge anything they say/have questions about.

Nope, didn't work there, (nearby though) but know a couple guys who did.

And GO REDWINGS in '08!