Flight Instruction question
 

I am interested in what Flight Instructors have to say. I am really begining to feel like I would enjoy getting my CFI/MEI and teaching. I really do not want to teach primary though - it scares me. The thought of actually determining that someone is ready for solo, and then watching them go around the pattern is terrifying to me. I would really like to teach Multi, commercial, Aerobatic/upset recovery, Tailwheel endorsements...but the thought of being responsible for when a new student solo's, cross country, etc absolutely scares me. Am I alone in this way? Has anyone ever had a primary student screw up badly on a solo, or solo x-country? (maybe a bad question - it will reinforce my terror :eek:)

Also - what type of instruction is the most fun/least fun?
What type of instruction do you feel best sharpened your skills?

Just curious...I have seen lots of posts from people that "don't want to instruct", and people that feel that "instructing is the best way to learn". I would like to hear specifics about what instructors like and learn (as opposed to general comments like "it is rewarding" and "i learned more while instructing").

Thanks in advance guys

I just posted this and saw my typo...I will flame myself so we can dispense with the comments about why I mispelled instruction:

1) English M**************, do you speak it? (From Pulp Fiction)
2) The first step to instructing would be learning to spell
3) Is English your native tongue
4) JetBlue owns the future, and you can't spell (should save Gman a post)
5) It is people like you, that can't spell, that pick up the DP's at FedEx (from FedEx guys)
6) I know how to spell, and I still can't get on with Alaska! (our favorite construction co. owner/Alaska pilot).

OK, that ought to cover it. Thread is pre-flamed

Quite possibly the single best post I've ever seen on APF.
...and no, I'm not biased because the one that got me in trouble was first on the list :D

Thanks POPA, just trying to save some people some time. Hope I don't get in trouble. I still think Jungle's post, that showed the bunny with pancakes stacked on its head was the best.

Haha. I've got lots of stuff like that stored away in an online warehouse, but only about 40% of it is usable on these forums.

I think you learn to use good judgement about when to solo someone. Maybe your first few students take a bit longer, cause you'll be conservative, but that's part of the process. You just work with them until they are at the point where they can get the job done without you next to them. Then you let them go under controlled circumstances. It's kinda scary, but I think teaching wheel landings in a taildragger is worse.

When instructing I enjoyed working with primary students more than those working on advanced ratings. I was also scared by commercial and instrument students to a much higher degree than I ever was by a private student. Maybe it had to do with my attention, but I think much of it had to do with bad habits and things you simply can't anticipate that advanced students have picked up along the way.

What is the most fun? Seeing a student suddenly grasp something they have been working on. When all the pieces come together they are excited, and you are satisfied because you know you're doing a good job. The least fun? Sitting in the pattern for hours on end with somebody that is either not putting forth the effort to study on their own, or doesn't care.

Every type of instruction you do will sharpen your skills. Primary students aid in the fundamentals to some degree, but I think they heighten your ability to mutli task more than anything. Instrument students obviously add to this, but they also give you some "real world" experience. I logged quite a bit of actual last spring and it really helped me feel ready to move on to a regional. Commercial students help because you're going to get a little yank and bank out of your system and by that point the student's skills are close to yours so you need to be sharp.

I've had students screw up on solos, solo cross countries as well. In the couple cases where this occured they were honest and upfront with me. This showed that they were learning and this experience, while worthy of a gut check, would make them better pilots. The main rule I had when signing somebody off was that I wouldn't do it until I was confident that they would be safe. Even in the cases where my students "screwed up" they were safe and took what I would consider acceptable actions. That in my mind is more important than doing everything perfectly every time.

Simply put, if I could find an instructing job that payed better and meant fewer hours at work I would still be doing it.

Of course don't forget the forum admin that edits your spelling in the thread title making everyone wonder what you're talking about! :p

As for primary CFI instruction, the anxiety you feel is called inexperience mixed with responsibility (this is a good thing to recognize!). Soloing a student is one of the most gratifying aspects of being a CFI that I remember even if it was a little more work. The first few will have you a little nervous, but trust me, it gets easier.

I am glad you did edit it - I actually wanted answers to this question, and this will help. Thanks so far for the responses - very helpful.

That is very funny. FLY SAFE T.C.

DE727 is correct as far as my oppinion goes.

There are things I do not like about primary students just the same as others but that is life as an instructor..with 250 hours and a new CFI you cant just pick who you get.

Primary students pros....everything they know about flying is because you taught them, when you see the look on their face after they land for the first time and solo for the first time it is all worth it

Cons...everything they know you taught them...so teach them correctly because they are flying on your ticket, there is no one to blame but yourself. TOUCH AND GOs. Nothing like 8 hours logged in the pattern when it is 100 degrees with 100 percent humidity.

As for safety and risking your life everyday..I just have not seen that, of course the students will do crazy things that have the potential to be very dangerous but if you are on the ball you develop a sixth sense to see what they are going to do that is dangerous before it even happens and allow it to go just far enough to be a learning experience but not to far to be a near death experience. This is probably one of the biggest assets of being a flight instructor.

You say you want to teach UAT/Aerobatics...teach someone to land a taildragger like DE said and you will pray for primary students in a cessna. A taildragger is squirrely enough when you are flying it, let alone someone who has never touched one before. You really cant teach someone UAT or acro if you cant teach first. You need the cessna/piper time and that sixth sense before you go jumping into a plane and putting it in inverted stalls.

The basic moral of the story is that instructing is great and so far for me the ups have seemed to outweigh the downs, you just have to take it in stride and dont be afraid to be humbled.

Of course it would be great to go into a place, a newly minted CFI and say "I dont really want primary but I will take the commercial and ME and Acro students" They will probably look at you like you have two heads. It is no different than someone with 500 hours flying Citations. But of course most people know someone who is flying Citations with 500 TT so you never know..maybe that instructing job you are looking for exist after all.

Thanks for the reply - and for confirming de727UPS about the Taildragger training. Not so much a fear based upon danger to me, as it is danger about what happens to them after. Understand about walking into a place and demanding multi-students or commercial, etc. I was actually thinking of buying a Seneca, 310, or old Baron and offering the plan, and myself, to a school that doesn't currently offer multi. I figured that would be the way to get loads of ME instruction logged.

I never soloed anyone, only have 200 hours of dual given. A lot of fam flights, aircraft checkouts, and 2-IFR tickets to my credit. To me, teaching instruments was the most enjoyable.

thats good.. as for buying a twin...stick to the old faithful possibly affordable such as the duchess/seminole/seneca models

be prepared to pay quite a bit up front for the initial investment as well as a lot of maintenance cost and overhauls if the plane is flying alot. I dont see it as even being remotely profitable but I am completely guessing here as I have not worked the numbers. It would be great if it worked though. Barons either the 55 or 58 are quite costly and can be maintenance intensive in a training environment. Not a great training platform

Thanks - it is something I am kicking around. I am also not sure if the numbers work out - but you do get loads of multi time, and when you are done the plane still has value so you can sell it. I am still contemplating this, but am on a fence.

I just got a very nice Apache with the Geronimo mods for 60K. You can burn car gas in it. I don't believe it will be much more expesive to run than 300hp retract single, like a 210 or an A36.

Like it was said, primary students are fun, but they are a challenge. I teach at a university so we get the entire strata of students with all their baggage too. You will be a better stick and rudder skill guy and also will begin to see what your first CFI was saying when he talked about using the rudder and feeling the plane. Usually, we subconsciously develop these skills, but when you fly with someone who doesn't have them, it becomes painfully obvious and lets you know what to look out for.

Sidenote: In previous semesters, many of the new-hire CFIs at our school did not get student pilots because flying with a commercial student has skills that are recent to you and also allows you to get your feet wet without the high responsibility for a student pilot.

Instrument students are interesting and are in many ways like student pilots. Early on, you will have many times to wonder "Where is he going? I said turn to ____________, or hold ____________!" It can be frustrating, but in the end, when you do the cross-country flights, you can really enjoy it (and seek out IMC). Just make sure they study a lot. Another benefit: the training is pretty much all dual, like primaries.

I haven't had any Commercial students, and I feel for any I get (jk). Personally, I think it's very reasonable for the student to be able to hold altitude, heading, and airspeed on the dot since they are fresh out of Instrument. Also, they need to have a much better decision-making ability than say a student pilot. After all, they are a PPL with Instrument priveleges. I should NEVER have to ask them to check weather, W&B, or preflight. Those are the things you do anyway no matter what you fly. Obviously, you can't have those kind of standards when they first begin practicing the new maneuvers, but for PPL maneuvers (straight and level, climbs, turns, descents, steep turns, and stalls) there isn't much excuse for not meeting at least Private PTS.

It's the multi students that scare me. They can screw up something and I won't be able to recover. Engine failure on takeoff, student feathers wrong engine, student leaves gear down, and/or student leaves flaps down. Presto! the marginally survivable situation has just become a crash.

As if to prove my point, the local bottom feeder flight school lost both of its multis less than a week apart. The first, they were able to skip off two roofs before settling on a third. The second was a nosewheel collapse on landing.

Most of the other local multis have crashed with MEIs aboard conducting multi instruction. Very few have survived their crashes.

I'll do my multi training and recurrency stuff in the sim. Once the pilot proves there is only a slim chance of him killing me, then we might actually get up into the airplane and go fly.

This is interesting. I was under the impression that Multi would perhaps be the most risky in some ways...if for no other reason than I got my PPL at a field that was named after the Airport owners son who happened to die while doing multi-training at that airport. Happened years before I was born but apparently they lost the critical engine on an Apache (Not the Geronimo version, but stock 150hp's per side) on a HOT day (Houston, TX) with an observer in the back seat. I believe, on the old Apache's, they had the hydraulic pump on the left engine only...so if you lost that, the gear was in place (down in this case, it was take-off). The did a VMC roll into 70 ft. pine tree's at the north end of the field.

That's why blue line is so stinking important. I agree with the sim. That's what we do. Get your instrument proficiency back and practice procedures before you get in the plane. Saves money too, since you aren't renting the multi for that time.

Love The Geronimo's. Very nice looking airplanes with the sharp nose. What is SE performance like?