Connect and get the inside scoop on Airline Companies

Welcome to Airline Pilot Forums - Connect and get the inside scoop on Airline Companies

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ. Join our community today and start interacting with existing members. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free.


User Tag List

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-19-2007, 05:17 AM   #1  
Line Holder
Thread Starter
 
Buzz's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Sitting
Posts: 18
Default Question for all civilians currently in flight training...

Hello folks,

I completed my civilian flight training up to my commercial single-engine at a Part 141 school in Northern Michigan. I then joined the AF in 1998. I have flown and had a great time and I am now leaving active duty for an airline job. I have numerous friends that stayed on the civilian track and completed their CFI, CFII, MEI, etc. in the mid to late 90's. They finished their training with tens of thousands of dollars in debt, barely scraped by as a CFI earning poverty wages, years later worked for Net Jets, Flex Jet, ASA, and eventually got airline jobs within the past 2 to 3 years.

My question is... What have you guys seen as far as the amount of people willing to start civilian pilot training only to quit due to the huge cost and poverty wages the first few years?

My theory is that the airlines have trouble in the next 3 to 5 years. I am assuming since 9/11 there have been a lot less people paying for pilot training as well as tuition at ERAU, Western Michigan, Purdue, etc. because of the bleak job prospects. Therefore the regional airlines will have a smaller pool of people to hire and therefore the major airlines will have a smaller pool from which to hire in the coming years.

Any thoughts? Thank you.
Buzz is offline  
Old 07-19-2007, 10:55 AM   #2  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Timmay's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: FOD
Posts: 353
Default

I don't have the numbers, but I believe ERAU-Prescott has, in the past few years, exceeded new pilot enrollment numbers from pre-9/11. As an instructor there, though, it seems like there are a lot more newcomers who have the entitlement mentality and it shows in their work. The vast majority of my students over the last couple years have expected to be spoon-fed every minute detail of their training with as little outside effort put out on their parts as possible. So my theory is that there are still a ton of high school grads who have wealthy families and think that flying would be a cool job so mom and dad cut the check and they're off to school.

Don't get me wrong, there are still students who genuinely love to fly and are going into the industry because of their passion for aviation. But the mentality of so many students and parents could be summed up if you tag along with any random campus tour. I used to give tours of the flight training center as a student, and more often than not, there would be a student or parent who would ask "How much money will I be making when I become a captain on a 747?" or "If I attend this school, will I HAVE to work for a regional airline?"

Not illogical questions...but if you're asking them you're probably going into the job for the wrong reasons. Sorry, I digress a little bit, but long story short, I don't think Riddle has seen much of a slow-down in new students.
Timmay is offline  
Old 07-19-2007, 03:24 PM   #3  
Gets Weekends Off
 
the King's Avatar
 
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: JS32 FO
Posts: 845
Default

Yeah, MTSU's numbers have been up as well.
the King is offline  
Old 07-19-2007, 09:43 PM   #4  
Gets Weekends Off
 
SiShane's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: B73NB
Posts: 344
Default

I feel you on the mommy and daddy tuition kids....in the end we will see who truly wants to be there with the poor prospects of making any good money...Im just doing it because there is no other job I will be happy with....Im ready to make the sacrifices and travel the long journey ahead...
SiShane is offline  
Old 07-20-2007, 09:08 AM   #5  
Gets Weekends Off
 
HercDriver130's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 744 CA
Posts: 4,578
Default

You wanted to be there or you didnt graduate UPT.....end of story. 66 started....30 finished. NO spoon feeding. While they would never admit to it in those years.. it was almost as if they needed and / or were expected to wash out a certain number. We lost one guy 3 weeks for graduation. He already had been assigned to a C-141 ... had passed his instrument check....but had problems in T-38 formation ( in those days everyone flew the T-37 and T-38 ...no tracking then ).. he washed because he couldnt fly "fingertip" position at .9 mach ....
HercDriver130 is offline  
Old 07-20-2007, 01:36 PM   #6  
Gets Weekends Off
 
surreal1221's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 893
Default

May sound silly, but what good does being able to fly a fingertip @ .9 do for someone about to go fly a large cargo beast such as the 141?
surreal1221 is offline  
Old 07-20-2007, 07:43 PM   #7  
Gets Weekends Off
 
maximaman's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 182
Default

I believe mesa pilot development enrollment is down somewhat from the past years.
maximaman is offline  
Old 07-20-2007, 08:05 PM   #8  
Gets Weekends Off
 
tomgoodman's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: 767A (Ret)
Posts: 6,012
Default Single track

Quote:
Originally Posted by surreal1221 View Post
May sound silly, but what good does being able to fly a fingertip @ .9 do for someone about to go fly a large cargo beast such as the 141?

Back then, the AF position was that they wanted the ability to assign any UPT graduate to any airplane, in case the needs of the service changed. For example, they did pull a number of guys out of the KC-135 and send them to F-105s during the Viet Nam war. It was rumored that if a student's IPs thought he wasn't ready for fighters, they could "blackball" him from getting one for a first assignment, even if his class rank was high enough.
tomgoodman is offline  
Old 12-28-2008, 09:40 AM   #9  
Line Holder
Thread Starter
 
Buzz's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Sitting
Posts: 18
Default

Anything new? What are you guys seeing for enrollment now with airline hiring back down?

Thank you.
Buzz is offline  
Old 12-29-2008, 09:30 PM   #10  
Line Holder
 
soon2be's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Posts: 34
Default

i know most colleges have gone up in numbers recently... not good for us who want to be pilots because that means more competition for the same jobs. I hope that maybe with all of these Nam era pilots aging and beginning to retire there will be a lot more jobs coming open in the near future
soon2be is offline  
 
 
 

 
Post Reply
 



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Flight Simulators as a Training Aid Juicegoose Flight Schools and Training 17 07-03-2007 10:18 AM
Flight Number question ASpilot2be Hangar Talk 2 02-26-2006 08:14 PM
BA Sponsered Flight Training Pylot Hangar Talk 0 11-18-2005 09:49 AM
European Flight Training The E-Train Flight Schools and Training 2 08-18-2005 10:47 PM
NWA managers training as F/A replacements RockBottom Major 0 06-15-2005 05:12 AM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:28 PM.