Multi engine failure
 

Hi all,

I have a question which I think I know the answer to but I am not confident.

If you lose an engine after takeoff

1. Fly the airplane
2. Pitch for blue line
3. Mixtures, props, throttles, flaps, gear, flaps, identify, verify, secure
4. save operating engine

So if it's hot and humid and you still aren't climbing at blue line is there anything else you can do? I assume that basically all you can do at that point is pitch for blue line and maintain a controlled descent into whatever is straight ahead, since airspeed is more important than altitude.

I feel like I'm missing something. Thanks for the help.

I'm sure you are including "feather" in your "secure". That low to the ground there's no time to troubleshoot so immediately feather the engine and get all the drag out. But if blue line still gives you a descent....your putting that baby down somewhere. Don't forget about figuring single engine service ceiling. Using current weather and weight it will give you an approximate altitude that you should be able to hold with one engine inop. Hard to say on a hot and high day though.

Keep Pitching back until Vx or worst case Vmc...

You know why twin engine airplanes have two engines right?

Because they don't fly worth a damn on one. :)

Remember it is always better to pitch down for airspeed and give up altitude if you have to make an off field landing than stalling or Vmc-ing the plane and you roll over and crash.

Always fly the airplane

I am not sure I would go for Vx because in a drag demo typically anything other than VYSE will give you worse performance and in that situation I would not want to be any closer to Vmc that close to the ground

so as you said,
control
power
drag
identify
verify
forget the fix step
feather

and if you are on your climb out there is a 90% chance that you are pitching down for VYSE

1. Fly the airplane - ~5 deg bank into good engine, opposite rudder from dead engine (i.e. "dead foot, dead engine"), maintain control
2. Pitch for blue line - if it is hot and humid in a light twin, I generally try to break ground as close to vyse as possible. This way, if I do lose one, I am already either at or above blue line and don't have to make sudden nose down pitch changes low to the ground.
3. Check fuel valves are open and on appropriate tank. Most engine failures are from fuel starvation.
4. Maintain vyse
5. Throttles, props, mixtures - throttles give you power, props give you bite, mixtures give it kick
6. Maintain vyse
7. Gear - gear creates the most drag. Know your accelerate stop distances and pick a point on the runway that is your decision point. Past this point, as soon as you have positive rate, get the gear up. If you lose and engine before you get the gear up, it doesn't take much effort to reach over or down to get the gear after you firewall your throttles, props, and mixtures.
8. Maintain vyse
9. Flaps - if you are departing with 10 degrees or so of flaps, leave them be, they are actually helping more than you know, and there isn't going to be much of a difference with or without, so leave them be. One less thing to worry about so close to the ground.
10. Maintain vyse
11. Identify - dead foot, dead engine, look at your engine gauges
12. Verify - slowly pull back on inoperative throttle...DO NOT CHOP! You don't want to chop power to your good engine by mistake...remember, we train for this, but when it happens for real...
13. Maintain vyse
14. Feather - get rid of that drag. I practice departure engine failures by "feathering" the prop...pull the prop lever back about an inch so you get used to doing it in a real engine failure situation.
15. Maintain vyse
16. Secure - once at a safe altitude, verify mixture to cut off, mags off, fuel off.
17. Maintain vyse
18. Save good engine once at a safe altitude. Pull the prop back off red line, throttle back a little to get your MP down to at least match your prop RPM (unless you are flying a radial;)), oh, and you can get your flaps up now :D.

NOTEs:
a. If the bad engine is giving partial power, don't cheat on it, use that bad boy as much as possible. Might make the difference in climbing or not.
b. In this situation, your rudder is your best friend...don't be afraid of using rudder trim.

If hot and humid and she is not climbing at blue line, fly the airplane...play around a little with your rudder (small adjustments, nothing major...don't want to make the situation worse than it already is), make sure you might not have missed that "sweet spot" that makes her all of a sudden want to climb, but while you are doing this find a good spot straight ahead and start getting ready to put her down off airport:(

The reason I say pitch down for VYSE is not because you were climbing at other than VYSE it is because with the sudden loss of your engine also goes the sudden loss of your airspeed and altitude for various reasons.

I only have a few hundred hours of ME though so this is not from direct actual engine failure it is more of what I have experienced through teaching and what I have read so what I am saying is by no means gospel. I would be interested to hear other from people with more experience than I have

Very smaller pitch fluctuations may help you get some kind of performance, however it wont climb it wont climb. Making any large adjustments in pitch could cause you to lose airspeed and fast. Vmc in most twin training aircraft is a stalled condition so odds are you wont see a full lose of directional control, but in reality a stall is just as bad. The only difference is that if you stall first you'll just end up killing everyone on the runway. Vmc will cause you to kill everyone just off the side of the runway. Personally if I were in a situation in which the aircraft would not climb I would close the throttle on the good engine, pitch forward for a safe airspeed well above stall and dead stick it in. Much better to make a controlled crash than let the airplane control the crash, odds are you are going down either way.

I agree, more than likely, you will pitch down for VYse, although, the closer you are to VYse, the less you will need to pitch down.

Let's take an example here. Vmc of 75 = Vr of about 80, assume VYse of 104. Rotate at 80, puts you climbing about 90 to 95 (~Vx) therefore you must accelerate anywhere from 9 to 14. Hold your takeoff until about 95 to 100 and you are climbing anywhere from 105 to 110 (~VYse + 5). In the event of a loss of power on one engine you will experience a degredation of airspeed and will have to pitch down to maintain VYse. However, to accelerate to VYse from 90 to 95 will require more of a down pitch than the small nose down pitch to maintain VYse with the degredation of airspeed from 105 to 100 down to 104. I believe on climbout the closer you initially are to VYse, then you are that much further from Vmc, and that is a good thing:)

This is by no means set in stone, it is just an example of a typical light twin. I have flown aiplanes that will not climb at or above VYse and regardless with those, it takes a large pitch down to even get to VYse in the event of an engine failure.

"If you're faced with a forced landing, fly the thing as far into the crash
as possible."
- Bob Hoover

"If an airplane is still in one piece, don't cheat on it. Ride the bastard
down."
- Ernest K. Gann

"When a prang seems inevitable, endeavor to strike the softest, cheapest
object in the vicinity, as slowly and gently as possible."
- advice given to RAF pilots during WWII

If the good engine hasn't given up on me, why should I give up on it? The power it is producing might be the difference in safely landing in a field, pasture, etc. versus dying in trees, powerlines, houses. If you are trained properly for flying a twin, then flying on one engine is not letting the airplane control the crash...throttling back and making the airplane a several thousand pound glider is.

Excuse me, opposite rudder? Have you ever done this before?

:oSorry, guess I should clarify...that would be opposite rudder from your engine that has failed (dead foot, dead engine principal) as a compared to opposite rudder from the bank into the good engine. Sorry about the confusion.

And yes, I have and proud of it (sarcasm):D

Seriously, it was part of my multi training. My instructor witnessed a pilot on a checkride step on the wrong rudder (initial engine failure on departure portion) that resulted in a situation where the twin they were flying nearly clipped the airport beacon and roof of the FBO. Therefore, part of my training was to climb to a safe altitude, simulate a departure climb, retard power on the left engine, and step on the left rudder. It is scary how fast the airplane yaws and wants to drop out from under you. I can only imagine how scary it would be to do it close to the ground!:eek:

p.s. I have edited my previous post to help clairfy the mixup.

Let me make this easier for you. Slower airspeed (transition for landing) aircraft barely flying as is, probably a high pitch attitude, high power setting (obviously as stated before we are trying to climb) = Probably more rudder than you got, which tada = aircraft crashed and upside down on runway (stall) or aircraft crashed upside down off the side of the runway (loss of directional control). Closing the throttle and dead sticking it in solves it all. If it wont climb then you have to eat the sh89 on your plate and deal with it. As far as obstructions and stuff that you were talking about, probably should have planned for those to begin with. But I wouldnt expect an amatuer to look that far ahead.

I've always found, "Working foot, Working engine" worked better for me. And yes, it is shocking how fast it can all fall apart if you step on the wrong engine.

I was in sim training one time with some fellow EMB-120 pilots as an observer. We were checking out for a small European carrier. Everyone was supposed to be current and qualified. One guy, who was checking out as an FO, totally screwed up the V1 cut. We just barely got airborne and he got in to some sort of Pilot induced yaw to the point that he lost control. The last thing I remember seeing out the window was two rows of vertical lights (the runway). It was a sickening feeling. BOOM. It happened so fast the instructor forgot the crash inhibit switch. He failed to fly a V1 cut 8 more times in a row. He went home that night.

I am not saying land the airplane with full throttle on your good engine. That is not even done when you lose an engine en route or approaching the airport for landing. All I am saying is don't be so darn quick to yank the good engine you have remaining in an effort to maintain control.

As far as stall or a Vmc roll (more than likely you will get to Vmc before a full blown departure stall condition), what the heck are you doing that slow to begin with? Look at #2 in my original post...pitch for blue line. 90% of the time this will be a pitch down, not up. Yes, you will have a degradation of airspeed, but if you wait until you are closer to VYse on the takeoff roll, you will have a larger margin of error when it comes to airspeed degradation resulting in a few more seconds to let the good engine have a chance to help rather than yanking the power back and giving up so quickly.

You talk about maintaining control, yet your procedure of "dead sticking" (of course you know this means killing the good engine completely, no power available at all now), you have made the airplane a huge flying brick and taken all control out of the situation and given it over to an airplane (primary job is to kill you) and a higher power (depending on your beliefs).

As far as obstructions are concerned, you should treat every multi engine departure as if you are going to lose an engine at the worst possible time. Not only is this good common sense, but it is also good preflight planning. Knowing the area immediately around the airport is just a vital as for multi engine flight as checking the oil in your engines and draining your fuel sumps.

Do what you like, but for me, I am not giving up on that engine...just because I am not climbing, doesn't mean I am not maintaining altitude.

If I was unable to maintain altitude with the inop engine feathered and the operative engine at full power I would personnally run that good engine at full power until the crash at Vxse climb angle.

My theory is the slower I am when I crash the more likely I am to survive. Running the engine at full power will give me the best vertical speed for the airspeed (in this case slowest descent). With any luck ground effect will cushion the vertical drop a touch.

Its a trade off, of course you could pitch for vyse and have a higher airpeed and lower sink rate but chance are you are going to hit an obstacle in front of you before running into something directly below you.

Just the way I see it..