Loggin ME in a C-412
 

Question,

I have a friend that flies as a comm pilot a C-412....and it only requires 1 pilot, from what I understand. He flies it for a company that would allow me to sit in the right seat and fly it (for free of course).....

How can I log the hours, he's being paid (salary), but I'm flying the plane?

Thanks......

If he is an MEI and you are flying you can log it as PIC dual recieved. If he is not an MEI you would have to be sole manipulator of the controls since the airplane does not require 2 pilots and then you would be logging PIC and he would be logging nothing just merely acting as the PIC of the aircraft.

If he is being paid though to fly passengers I am not sure they would want someone else flying the plane from the right seat especially if something went wrong it would be an insurance nightmare. Bad juju

It can be done though

If you are the sole manipulator of the controls and are rated in the category and class and type (unnecessary here), then you can log PIC. Two things to be careful about.
1. You may only fly deadhead flights (no passengers), and the company may rules that apply to you. Just do your research and know what's allowed and expected.
2. If you get a significant amount of time in the 421, make sure you study the systems. Some airlines will ask you about the systems of the twin you have the most time in. Be prepared to prove you were a pilot and not just occupying the seat to fill the logbook.

Why only deadhead flights? Company is cool with me flying too, and I would be an MEI, and he is not and MEI, don't know if that helps!!!!

Ok, first off I'm going to assume this is not a Part 135 charter. All this is for Part 91

1. Yes you can log all time that you are sole manipulator, as long as you have your high-perf/high-alt/complex endorsements. C421's are certified above 25000, so a High-Alt endorsement is required to log PIC

2. I would highly question any "dual-given" that you'd be doing towards this corporate pilot. Regs are gray, but honestly you don't have any time in the plane, and logging it as you being the one teaching is falsification in my eyes. In the end, only log actual dual-given as such.

3. Help out, and really learn the systems and handling characteristics of the airplane. Doing some grunt work will really make you appreciate the opportunity, and obviously so will the company that you're getting some free experience off of. 421's are good twins, but you really have to respect those geared engines. If you don't know what I'm talking about, then maybe you should sit and talk with the pilot some more.

Part 135:

Basically you can't log any of the "live" legs of a 135, unless you have recieved specific company training for that aircraft, and taken some sort of test and check-ride. All the dead legs would be acceptable, and the rules above do apply

I could rant forever, but do what you want in the end. I've known people that logged anything and everything when they were in the aircraft, regardless of the situation.

Not really. The FAA only allows the logging of instruction for legit instructional purposes....

- Training for a rating
- A/C fam
- Route/area fam
- BFR/IPC
- Club/insurance checkout


If you fly multiple XC legs and log all of them as dual, that is obviously not realistic.

Since you are the MEI and actual pilot is not an MEI, it would be ridiculous for YOU to jump in an airplane you've never flown, that this guy has been flying for years (?) and give him dual on routes he has flown hundreds of times. Don't do it.

The only legit way to do this is for you to fly whatever legs he lets you fly, and log it. But there's a few catches...

1) You have to be PIC and manipulator.
2) He cannot log your legs (he may not need/want the time anyway)
3) If insurance requires him to be the PIC (it will), then you risk voiding the insurance coverage.

[quote=rickair7777;228514]
2) He cannot log your legs (he may not need/want the time anyway)

On a somewhat related side bar-
Is it true that the only situation where two pilots can BOTH log the time flown in simulated instrument (hood). As I understand it- if I am safety pilot, I am just sitting there monitoring, but I can still log PIC. Is this correct?

[QUOTE=Cranford;228579]Assuming that you are current and qualified in that aircraft, yes you can log SP.

You could also log SIC is the airplane is certified for an SIC, or if a single-pilot airplane is operated under op-specs which require an additional pilot (this happens in 135 sometimes).

BTW, you would also have to have 5 hours PIC in the make and model to give ME instruction. Just got my MEI so that's still fresh in my mind.

thats bum info king..the 5 hours is only required if you are signing them off for a rating. You could give someone a bfr in their king air 100 if you wanted to but you could not sign them off for their atp in it unless you had 5 pic