Giving up?
 

I've been doing flight training for a little over a month now. I have 10 hours under my belt. I'm studying for my written like mad. Sometimes though, I just feel like giving up. I don't think I'll go farther than my private pilot and I get SO nervous when I'm up there. Instructor tells me to relax but then starts freaking me out whenever I do something wrong (yelling, making me feel like a complete idiot) which makes me more nervous. Did anyone else go through this? :( Should I just give up if I'm starting to not enjoy flying and I get freaked out so easily? Or does it get better and its all worth the trouble?

Try switching instructors first...you are the customer and it is your right to do so. If you still feel the same way afterwards, post again.

Shortone,

First of all, do not give up. If you are nervous up there, then talk to your instructor about it. Trust me, you aren't the first person to get nervous about being in the air. Like Slice said, you are the customer...you deserve a respectful CFI who is going to help try to calm your fears...not make them worse. Every instructor has a different teaching technique, and every student learns in a different way. Don't feel like you'll offend the instructor if he just doesn't fit your style of learning.

Whether it's worth all the 'trouble' is up to you. Flying isn't easy as pie...it does take a lot of studying, however I do believe that just about everyone who wants to do it, can. Learning to fly is a challenge and adventure. If your not looking forward to your next lesson, then your going to lose interest. If you feel as if it's the instructor who's making you uncomfortable, then ask the school to switch you...if they wont, change schools.

As an instructor I'd go out of my way to comfort a student who's not comfortable up there. There's nothing wrong with this feeling, and if you give up - you will always wonder what if? Your instructor shouldn't be hesitant to help you through your nervousness...sounds like he is, and that's no good for the student.

What exactly is it that's making you so uneasy up there? Read into things like engine out procedures, read through aerodynamics, stalls, etc. When you really understand what's going on, the sounds and feelings will start to feel normal. All in all, don't give up so quickly. Talk to your instructor, get a new one, or read up on the things that are making you uneasy. Ask away when you have questions here...we are here to help, and if we can help make you feel more at ease up there - we'd be happy to assist.

Hope everything works out for you. Keep us updated.
PCJ

Switch instructors!

Its unprofessional and unacceptable for the instructor to shout at you when you are dishing out the cash. With the new instructor explain precisely what is making you feel apprehensive and nervous. Dont hold back, be honest with him or her so as to overcome the anxiety.

Learning to fly is challenging and its going to take gumption to get through it. After all, we humans weren't designed to fly, especially after just 10 hours!

Erik

There's abosolutely no reason at all for an instructor to raise their voice while teaching you.

...unless you try 90° nose down :P

Id concur with the above. Change instructors first. If that doesnt do the trick then maybe reassess at that point. Apprehension is normal, certainly at only 10 hours.

Change instructor. I went through 4 before my ppl check ride. I ended up with an old fart who was cool as ice. I wish I could find him again for my ifr rating.

Welcome to the FBO world...Its in your FBO/CFIs best interest to keep you nervous and slow your training.

Get a new instructor. Maybe that will help. However, chances are the experience will have soured you to aviation. If you do decide to continue I would recommend flight training academies or small family owned accelerated schools for your ratings. Don't waste your time and money at an FBO.

You meet some very shady people at FBOs. That goes for CFIs and owners. Protect yourself and your financial / mental health.

Recommendations for flight training: All Atps, Falcon Air (Atlanta area), and Prarie Air Service.

-LAFF

Not designed to fly after 10 hours?

Get real...He should have soloed by now and had a few hours solo under his belt.

I bet his CFI does all the taxi, radio, and most of the take-off / landings...Anything to string students along.

A student pilot should do all the radio / taxi / take-off / landing work from the 1st minute...You should solo them between 6 to 8 hours.

-LAFF

LAF, just curious. How many hours of dual have you given?

Individuals can reasonably be ready to solo anywhere from 8-30 hours, it just depends on a lot of things. As an instructor I wouldn't be worried about the 30 hour guy as long as steady progress is being made. You can proceed with most of the syllabus if they're not ready to solo, so you're not wasting training time/money.

10 hours can be too early depending on where you train. I was at a tower controlled field under the NY Class B. There was no way you were going to do it that quick. Hell, you'd spend at least .2 or .3 per flight waiting for takeoff clearance or being extended on downwind for landing. LAFF, there are more people out there with positive FBO experiences than those like yours. I think it took me 14 or so hours and I was not a below average student. It only took 3 weeks to solo, 3 months to PPL. Had I learned at an uncontrolled field it probably would have been quicker. The tradeoff was having decent ATC handling skills before being cut loose.

LAFF:

Do you hold a pilot certificate? Im curious as to the extent of your aviation background.

Erik

Zero hours dual given. If I have my way I want to give 1,000+ hours dual when the time comes in the distant future.

-LAFF

Erik,

PPL only.

-LAFF

Evasive answer LAFF:

Could that also be zero hours of dual received?

Erik

Cool.

Is your dad still working for PHI?

You dont want to do that?

Erik

I believe his Dad passed away...

Sorry to hear that.

I believe LAFF said his father or somebody was a helicopter pilot for PHI down in LA. Offshore helicopter flying always seemed interesting to me.

Erik

Off-shore flying is not for me. Takes a certain type to fly off-shore not everyone can do it...

Helo training is too expensive. In recent years a lot of civilian trained pilots have been getting on w/ off-shore companies as their is a shortage of military trained helo pilots.

Fixed-wing training is much cheaper.


-LAFF

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but people do not solo in 8 hours anymore.

there are of course exceptions to every rule just like there are 24 year olds flying for CAL but it is rare.

those who solo in 8-10 hours are typically in piedmont north dakota on a one runway uncontrolled field flying a cessna 152 AND have exceptional pilot skills and a great instructor.

I have over 800 dual given now and the best I have seen is 18 hours. Granted I think that is a little high but you also have to take into consideration as was previously mentioned that it depends on alot of factors. I instruct at the second busiest airport in New England 9 miles from BOS and it does take easily 20 minutes from start up to take off not to mention being extended on downwind every single run around the patch which eats up valuable time. Couple in with the fact the communications and all of our planes are newer SP's with GPS and autopilot you have a recipe for a few more hours in the logbook.

I just simply put have alot more that I need to teach a student and they need to digest at KBED than someone in a different environment.

It is not a race and it is just a question an instructor can not answer. "how many hours until I can solo?"

I have done what was mentioned earlier in some instances, if they were competent pilots but not quite ready to kick me out we have just moved right into the navigation and honing of their skills and they have then gone on to do their first solo on one day and then their first solo xc the next week, I have seen positive results from that.

Its a marathon not a race

Shortone, change instructors. Don't listen to LAFF, he is the resident Barney Fife on this board. I've had students take up to 25-30 hours to solo, and even had one take up to 80 hours to get his private. Just take your time, relax and enjoy the training.

You don't need anything more than a C-172/ C-152 w/ basic instruments, radios, basic navagation systems. Run away if the planes has glass or fancy GPS stuff.

A student should never settle for a teacher telling them they can't do something in x hours. It just doesn't work that way anymore is not acceptable.

A student doesn't need to master GPS navigation to solo. Solo x-county - not needed as well. I wouldn't even turn on a GPS. For PPL flying which is VFR you don't need anything but a watch, charts, and your head outside the cockpit.

Everytime I read your garbage, I want to rip my hair out. You're preaching a subject you have;

A. NO KNOWLEDGE ABOUT
B. NO EXPERIENCE WITH

I trained at a college, I trained people through a part 61 FBO. There's good and bad FBO's, professional flight schools, and CFI's. It happens at all schools, regardless of Part 61 or 141. Guess what, ATP isn't really a bargin if you do the math, but that's just me. You constantly spit on other people because they didn't take the "High and Mighty" path that you have. Give me a break.:mad:

I will agree on one thing, that's the fact that students should be practicing radio's from the start. All the other "taxi/take-off/landing" work is obvious though, seriously who doesn't let their students attempt to land?????:rolleyes:

As far as solo's go, I had a student at 14 hours on the civil side, at my college I got one at 11. On the bad side, a guy at 45hrs. I don't agree with the CFI's yelling, but sometimes "intensity" is a good means of making a point that before hand wasn't getting through. Mind you, I'm not talking about constantly yelling. Another factor, is 99% of folks that have no previous aviation experience, do not solo prior to 15-20hrs. This is pretty proven, by myself, my friends, and many other CFI's I talk with. But what do I know, I have 100% sign-off's, with 2 instrument, 10 private pilots behind me.


Now on topic:
shortone56,
Everyone gets frustrated in their training from time to time. In the end, you have to look at the goals you have set, actions you're taking, and progress you've made. At 10 hours, it's a hard time to be at, you're probably coming up on your solo, you've obviously got a lot going since you are already studying hard on the written test, and your instructor has a slightly aggrivated demeanor. If at all possible, I would talk with them about how they are telling you to relax, but they are often the source of frustration. Sometimes a gut-check for the CFI is just as good as anything. If they continue to be a problem, then obviously you need to switch to another CFI.

In the end, it's of the best interest of the student to have someone they are compatible with. If you have any more questions, comments, or concerns I'd be glad to talk with you via PM or even a phone call. Just let me know

This offer is good for any struggling students that would like any sort of advice from a 3rd party. Fly safe and have fun!:cool:

When I was a student I did my solo in 6 hours! I look back and not how great I was, because I wasn't, but how irresponsible my instructor was. After giving 500+ dual myself I realize I had no business flying alone at 6 hours.

I thank God I did not catch some x-wind on short final and ended up in a ditch. Instrucors have a two-sided responsibility; not to solo them when they are ready and not to hold them back when they are ready to solo.

I do not agree about yelling at students but there are times where I have been more than firm when students continue to ignore instruction that could lead to injury or death. A couple of my favorites are; taking all flaps out on a low approach go-around, pitch down full force down on a stall recovery, and everyones favorite pitching up on short final enough to bring on a stall without intervention. All students will make these mistakes but some continue to do them.

I love it when they do not put rudder in during slow flight because it allows me to slam the left rudder down and a spinning we go, after that they always remember rudder.

That's kind of what I thought. Nobody who has actually instructed would say something quite so dumb as 'You should solo them between 6 to 8 hours'.

To the original poster, I've never seen anything to convince me that someone that solos early will become a better pilot than someone who takes a little more time. IMHO the whole industry puts way too much emphasis on the first solo.

I cant even reply to the ignorance I read

this site is for PROFESSIONAL PILOTS and NON PROFESSIONAL PILOTS alike to join and research and learn

How can this site work if a student asks legitimate advice and gets bombed with information from NON PROFESSIONAL PILOTS

please people, let the people in the industry speak when they know what they are talking about, there is no room for poor advice or advice based on ASSumptions.

Its your money you pay the instructor not the other way around and if he is yelling at you in the cockpit he himself is the one that sucks because he's scared that you might get him into stall he cant get out of it. These r the types of instructors you need to stay away from. Ditch the low time instructor and get another one. And dont be scared to ask for another instructor. And like i said before its your money going down the drain when your not learning.

don't give up FT is tough to say the least we all and yes i speak for everyone we have thought about it the second thing we all have in common is that we did not quit.

I don't think I entirely agree here. The OP posted in the Flight Training forum. I think anyone that has been at a point in their flight training where they were discouraged or had a bad flight instructor should chime in with some advice to help him along. I think LAFF was a little out of line telling him that he should have soloed and have had several hours of solo at 10 hours... That doesn't make any sense to me... But as far as people like myself who are a little further along in the training that have -constructive- advice, I don't think we should be told to shut up and leave it to the pros. Just my $.02 though :)

Shortone - I'm pretty sure that it is a unanimous decision that you need to pursue changing your flight instructor. It is entirely possible that your CFI is a good guy and a good aviator and your personalities just don't mesh for some reason. Like everyone has said, it's your money, it's your flight training, it's your decision on who you fly with.

Oh, and don't get too down on yourself. There are going to be points in your flight training where you ask yourself "What the hell am I doing?". I actually remember having a couple of doubts right around ten hours or so, completely out of the blue. I was progressing well and I was very comfortable and confident. For some reason I just started getting really critical of my own abilities and felt like I wasn't doing good enough. I honestly had to ask myself if this is what I really wanted. The answer was a resounding "YES, why would I do anything else? I absolutely love flying!", but the point is that we all have our doubts every once in a while. There are a lot of things that you as a human being must adjust to to become comfortable hurtling through the air in a small aluminum box. Just be sure to pay particular attention to aerodynamics and aircraft systems. Knowing the science behind flying will probably make you a lot more comfortable doing it. And then once you get more comfortable you should notice a huge increase in your progress through your flight training.


P.S - Maybe your trying to do too much at once? You might consider slowing down on studying for the Private Pilot written and just study your tail off on things that you need to know at your point in training. That should probably be mostly Basic Aero, Aircraft systems and instruments, and the more important FAA regs. Of course that's just a suggestion from another student, take it for what it is worth.

*EDIT* - Sgt, I think I may have misunderstood your post. I'm sorry if that is the case :)

Your instructor needs to go, find another one buddy. Do not fret, you'll get through it.

The thing that always got me through my training, and what i would always tell my students when i was a CFI was to think about the end, and the means will be come much more clear.

Becoming a professional aviator is not an easy task. Always keep your chin up because there WILL be times where you feel as if this isn't for you. But if you want it to be, then it can be.

At 10 hours, you should be more concentrated on basic aircraft control, radio calls, and procedures for recovery from stalls. Do not worry about your solo, it'll happen when it happens. I solo'd 3 months after i started training, which was behind EVERYONE in my class who started in Sep. I finished before all but 3 of them, and was the 1st hired to a regional airline. It is NOT a race, although some of your peers will make you feel that way.

Blue skies and light wind my friend..and don't forget to get rid of that instructor, you'll be AMAZED at how much of a difference a comfortable cockpit environment can make on your learnings

The only time I ever yelled at a student was when they did something that put my life in danger and/or were blatently disregarding safety.

In two years of instructing, I had to do this three times. In all three cases they were working on advanced ratings (already had at least a pvt) and I had just picked them up from another instructor.

LAFF will lead you to believe that we just want to milk time out of you. Guess what? Pattern work doesn't do much for us after a while. Having you progress to cross countries, night flying and getting your private to move on to instrument training is much better for our career as well.

Personalities don't always mesh. Working through my ratings I had two instructors that I didn't work well with and changed them as soon as possible. The difference was night and day. You're spending a ton of money, you deserve what fits your learning style and will get you through most efficiently because the flight school will make more money in the long run if you're happy, progressing and continuing to advance your abilities.

I don't agree with ever yelling at a student unless they intentionally do something dangerous..or as said, have a blatant disregard for safety..if you only have 10 hours..you really can't make these calls yet..and the mistakes you make need to be learned from...that will never occur with an instructor yelling at you..it creates an extremely hostile cockpit, and an emotional shutdown by the student.

There is no yelling allowed in my case. Not just in CFI, but AT ALL. Boss, teacher, random person.. If they begin rasing their voice, and getting all heated up - I got to go, without even thinking twice.

About solo - I always thought (in my case) that I am not going to chase the time and numbers, but rather enjoy flying, and solo WHEN I THINK I'M READY.

My instructor told me to land the plane, because he wants to solo me. I said "No, i enjoy flying, but i'm not ready to solo yet. Give me at least one more lesson, and don't even think touching controls, unless you KNOW that i will crash". Next lesson did 4 landings, with 3knts xwing, and told my instructor that he can go, because i'm ready to solo. He got out, I did couple of landings, and wasn't even nervous. Why? Because I was enjoying it, and knew that I was in control.

Oh, and yea, it was on 26th hour I believe.

If I didn't feel comfortable - I wouldn't have soloed even 50th hour, and not feel bad. Yea, it takes money, and time. But I'm enjoying it, so willing to pay our of my wallet. No need to push it "Ok, i am on 15th hour, i HAVE to solo on my next flight". That will just ruin your day, you'll get frustrated, will kick yourself, and instead of joy it becomes a race that you'll never win..


Relax, and enjoy the experiense!

I will preface this by saying I have never instructed. I have, however, had a lot of experience with many different instructors (civilian and military) and have seen many different methods for instruction and have read a bit on instructing.

I have yet to see anyone respond well to constant yelling. Feelings of anger, frustration, resentment, and questioning yourself as to why you are paying to feel that way get in the way of learning. I have been there. It isn't necessarily even the yelling. Making students feel like an idiot or using tones of voice which are negative typically detract from the learning process. Sometimes, though, being firm or letting students know they screwed up is necessary, but that should be a learning point and point of discussion in table talk. There are other ways to get points across. Oh, and if students do something that endanger lives of themselves and instructors, my opinion is all bets are off and yelling is fine so long as it is discussed later, resolved, and lessons were learned.

As for the OP questioning continuing training, I would recommend getting another CFI who isn't a yeller and by all means get through at least your solo before you give up flying. Once I didn't have someone constantly yapping at me to make corrections, I seemed to enjoy it a lot more and pay more attention to things. I felt a great deal more responsibility and suddenly all the things he was teaching came together. It is a big step and if you don't experience that, you might shortchange yourself before making a more informed decision. And, as you fly/learn more, all the things you may be struggling with now will become second nature and you can enjoy it a lot more.

Just my inexperienced $.02.

It sounds like your instructor doesn't have a good personality for teaching. Instead of yelling at you, they should instead be constructive in their criticism in a way that allows you to improve and not be intimidated by someone's attitude.

Tell them this for their own benefit and if they take it well, then maybe you can keep flying with them. If not get a new instructor. I think however, an instructor needs to know where they need to improve just as the student does. Teaching is a skill as is flying.

Some of this got me thinking, for I had a case where I literally yelled at a student. Mind you he was in a professional flight program, had 150-ish hours, had been operating out of this airport for a year. This kid was lazy, and just wasn't putting forth the effort I thought, and honestly I think it was because this training was just being handed to him.

Basically this kid needed a fire lit under his ass, and I was the one that did it. Sometimes it's warrented, and this case I know it was effective because he handled himself in a much more professional manner and actually had a drive to improve himself.

Flight training centers aren't really better if you are looking for relaxed and laid back. Most of the instructors there have more students than they feel like they can handle, and often have issues with getting planes, etc. In addition, they are in the middle ground between the school's management and the students who are paying for training. It's often easiest to vent at students since they are LESS apt to leave or switch in this environment. By the way, this is from personal experience as both a student and now as an instructor. Stand up for yourself and find someone you can work with.

short what you're going through is completely normal and i'm glad you posted it up here. There is nothing wrong with you feeling nervous up there. When you start flying being up in the air in something smaller than a Honda Civic at 3,500 scares anybody. Your nerves will greatly improve especially after you solo the thing in the pattern a few times.

When I was flying at the University I soloed in about 10 hours. Then when I went back home to the FBO I had a CFI who also started yelling at me from taxi to runup, throughout the whole flight, with no constructive feedback just yelling. I canned the loser CFI went back to my old flight program at the University and immediatley started my solo cross countries.

Short ask around and find out how many people have actually soloed and or completed their private pilot under this guy? My original CFI was hard on me but he had me soloed in 10 hours. The guy is a shady character too he has like 2000 tt 200 multi and keeps getting denied to Mesa, Colgan, Comair, XJT. etc. He must have something on his record is all I can fathom.

Back to my good CFI (and trust me they are out there you just have to look) At one point I was having nerves too about leaving the pattern and getting lost. Something that seems silly now but was a big concern back then. I talked to him about it and he really helped me out. Try and stay away from people who teach people to fly and find a CFI who teaches people to become Pilots. Next time your at the FBO shopping around look around at the students and the CFI's. If you see a CFI with many students doing cross country planning and stuff you may want to take a ride with them. You can do stalls and touch'n'goes till you are blue in the head. Being an airman is way beyond that its like a way of thinking on your own and problem solving. Thats what you need to learn.. Not be yelled at because you didn't hit the carb heat in time or turned downwind too soon.

Good post...