PIC, SIC or just flying
10-06-2007, 06:23 AM
#1
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Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 207
PIC, SIC or just flying
I realize I'm a long way off from having to worry about this but what constitutes PIC or SIC time vice just flying time? I read a lot of posts that relate to PIC and SIC but don't know what it takes to build either.
UPDATE:
BTW, I found a local FBO that I'll be getting started with. http://www.fergusonairport.com/ The Military is using this school for the Ground School portion to weed out those that "think" they want to be aviators before our prescious tax dollars get wasted. There is an active duty Commander that is a CFI there that I hope to have as my instructor.
I looked into the Pensacola "Navy Flying Club" but it's only a Navy Flying Club by name. The rental and instructor fees are consistent with other military flying clubs but the "club" requires $795 up front just to begin. Complete and total B.S. I understand they need to pay for their new hangar but give me a break. They should hook-up with MWR...
UPDATE:
BTW, I found a local FBO that I'll be getting started with. http://www.fergusonairport.com/ The Military is using this school for the Ground School portion to weed out those that "think" they want to be aviators before our prescious tax dollars get wasted. There is an active duty Commander that is a CFI there that I hope to have as my instructor.
I looked into the Pensacola "Navy Flying Club" but it's only a Navy Flying Club by name. The rental and instructor fees are consistent with other military flying clubs but the "club" requires $795 up front just to begin. Complete and total B.S. I understand they need to pay for their new hangar but give me a break. They should hook-up with MWR...
10-06-2007, 07:56 AM
#2
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Joined APC: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,242
As a student you will log zero PIC hours. What you will log are dual rcv'd and solo time only. Of course, the sum of those will be total time.
Don't let you CFI tell you anything else. They (FBO CFIs) will do and say anything to get an extra dollar and 0.1 in their log books.
Are you still on active duty?
I would wait until leaving the service to begin flight training. Your time / money / efforts are better spent on higher education while in the military. I don't consider flight training to be anything more than vocational training.
-LAFF
Don't let you CFI tell you anything else. They (FBO CFIs) will do and say anything to get an extra dollar and 0.1 in their log books.
Are you still on active duty?
I would wait until leaving the service to begin flight training. Your time / money / efforts are better spent on higher education while in the military. I don't consider flight training to be anything more than vocational training.
-LAFF
10-06-2007, 08:02 AM
#3
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Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 207
Thanks LAFF. Yes, I'm still active. I have 3 yrs left until I hit 20. I'm in P-cola for another year then probably going to be stationed in JAX. My plan is to get my PPL and maybe my Instrument over the next year before I transfer. When I'm in JAX I'll work on ME, Commercial and maybe CFI. My plan was to have some hours and experience before I retired. I have 10 classes to finish for my Bachelors degree and am currently enrolled. I'll have that finish by the time I retire. Still think I should wait? Your opinion is valued.
10-06-2007, 08:41 AM
#4
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Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: UPS 757/767 Capt ONT
Posts: 4,357
"They (FBO CFIs) will do and say anything to get an extra dollar and 0.1 in their log books"
LAFF is a PPL who hates FBO's because he feels he got screwed by the flight school in Vacaville, CA when he was getting his PPL. Just be aware of that as you read his stuff. I find many of his comments at APC to be highly inaccurate and biased. There is a reason he doesn't post at the professional forums here, anymore.
About student pilots and PIC. Look up FAR 61.51 (d) and (e). Once you have your PPL, you can log PIC. I can't think of any situations where you'll log SIC in the course of flight training. That comes much later after your serving as a first officer (copilot) in an aircraft that requires two crewmembers.
I don't know how busy you are with your current job, but I got my PPL over the course of three months flying three to four times a week. Written passed before I started. Summer so there were no weather related delays. I was 17 years old.
If you can spare 10 hours a week outside your job, that should give you time to fly. You'll need to focus some of your other free time on reading and studying the material, and, like I said, I'd recommend a ground school, either formal or self study, and passing the written, before you start.
You'll have to decide if it's worthwhile to fit it all in. It would be a huge advantage to be able to walk away from the service, CFI and some good flight time in hand, and walk right into the flying job market. If you wait, you won't be able to do that. Also, if you wait, you'll feel pressured to do a 90 day program to get it done quick, and I believe that's a less than ideal way to become a competent CFI. You'd have a more well rounded experience base if you do it slowly over the next three years.
LAFF is a PPL who hates FBO's because he feels he got screwed by the flight school in Vacaville, CA when he was getting his PPL. Just be aware of that as you read his stuff. I find many of his comments at APC to be highly inaccurate and biased. There is a reason he doesn't post at the professional forums here, anymore.
About student pilots and PIC. Look up FAR 61.51 (d) and (e). Once you have your PPL, you can log PIC. I can't think of any situations where you'll log SIC in the course of flight training. That comes much later after your serving as a first officer (copilot) in an aircraft that requires two crewmembers.
I don't know how busy you are with your current job, but I got my PPL over the course of three months flying three to four times a week. Written passed before I started. Summer so there were no weather related delays. I was 17 years old.
If you can spare 10 hours a week outside your job, that should give you time to fly. You'll need to focus some of your other free time on reading and studying the material, and, like I said, I'd recommend a ground school, either formal or self study, and passing the written, before you start.
You'll have to decide if it's worthwhile to fit it all in. It would be a huge advantage to be able to walk away from the service, CFI and some good flight time in hand, and walk right into the flying job market. If you wait, you won't be able to do that. Also, if you wait, you'll feel pressured to do a 90 day program to get it done quick, and I believe that's a less than ideal way to become a competent CFI. You'd have a more well rounded experience base if you do it slowly over the next three years.
10-06-2007, 09:29 AM
#5
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Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 207
As well as being a pilot I didn't know you're also a mind reader. I considered waiting until after I retired but realized I would be looking at doing an academy of some sort. I would rather get some experience before I retire. Although LAFF is who he is, I take all opinions onboard before I make MY own desision. All opinions are valued, thanks for yours. It just so happens that your opinion matches what I had in mind. Thanks.
I kinda figured that SIC time came after getting a job in an AC that requires two pilots but I wasn't sure. PIC time in a 152 doesn't count for a lot does it? I would think ME PIC and even more so, ME PIC Commercial (employed) time weighs a lot more. I feel confident that I'll have 500TT and a minimum of 100ME time when I retire. I have a lot of questions but would rather talk to someone face-to-face or on the phone. I'll try to keep the one-on-one to a minimum. Thanks again.
I kinda figured that SIC time came after getting a job in an AC that requires two pilots but I wasn't sure. PIC time in a 152 doesn't count for a lot does it? I would think ME PIC and even more so, ME PIC Commercial (employed) time weighs a lot more. I feel confident that I'll have 500TT and a minimum of 100ME time when I retire. I have a lot of questions but would rather talk to someone face-to-face or on the phone. I'll try to keep the one-on-one to a minimum. Thanks again.
10-06-2007, 09:59 AM
#7
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Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: UPS 757/767 Capt ONT
Posts: 4,357
10-06-2007, 06:20 PM
#9
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Joined APC: Jun 2005
Position: Retired
Posts: 2,934
CPO,
Prior to recieving your private, you can only log PIC if you're the only person in the aircraft (solo). After that, you can log both PIC and dual recieved if you're rated for the category and class of aircraft you're in. An example of this would be your instrument rating or your commercial single. While legal, some airlines don't count this as PIC for their hiring minimums.
Something I would suggest for you to put in your back pocket for later which will save you money (contrary to LAFF's belief CFI's aren't all out there to steal your money and log that extra 0.1) Take a private-multi ride if you intend on being a CFI. You'll need 15 hours multi PIC to get your MEI. If you have the pvt-mel you'll be able to log all that time working on the commercial as PIC. In the long run this could save you a ton of money by avoiding 15 hours at $200-300 an hour down the line.
Prior to recieving your private, you can only log PIC if you're the only person in the aircraft (solo). After that, you can log both PIC and dual recieved if you're rated for the category and class of aircraft you're in. An example of this would be your instrument rating or your commercial single. While legal, some airlines don't count this as PIC for their hiring minimums.
Something I would suggest for you to put in your back pocket for later which will save you money (contrary to LAFF's belief CFI's aren't all out there to steal your money and log that extra 0.1) Take a private-multi ride if you intend on being a CFI. You'll need 15 hours multi PIC to get your MEI. If you have the pvt-mel you'll be able to log all that time working on the commercial as PIC. In the long run this could save you a ton of money by avoiding 15 hours at $200-300 an hour down the line.
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