American Flyers, Santa Monica, CA
 

Hi there. I was wondering if any of you have gone to American Flyers down in Santa Monica, CA? If so, what did you think of the school? I'm looking for the positive and negative stuff. I am currently going to a horrible flight school, I won't say any names just yet, but let's just say they, erm, screw you over royally! Anyhow, I want to go to another school but don't want to jump into the same kind of problem/deal. So, any information on AF in California would be very much appreciated. I've spoken to some of the staff at AF over the phone and they seem like a very good school and very interested in helping people achieve their goals. Let me know what your experience was like or anything you have heard about the school. Thanks so much! :)

AF in general is overpriced, and the top managers always impressed me as being focused on monthly billing of students...ALL other considerations were secondary at best. Also, career students generally had lowest priority on the schedule. They viewed your time as flexible and expendable, as opposed to the busy (and wealthy) doctors, lawyers, and businessmen who payed full-fare for PPL and IR.

However, a few of the remote branches were pretty good schools (aside from the price) because the local manager was good...unfortunately the owners tend not to like managers who look after the students, so they don't last forever. SMO used to be one of the good ones, but the manager at the time has moved on and I'm not sure where they stand now.

I'd go down there, hang out on the ramp, and try to find a career student (as opposed to an old rich guy doing an IR) and ask him about his experiences.

Thanks for the tip and for replying! I will definately head down there and check out the place. I'm hoping it's alright. I realized that in my last post, I didn't say that I was interested in the CFI/CFII academy there. If anyone has any information on that, I would really appreciate your thoughts. And, as I said before, good or bad, I'd like to hear them all. As to what you said about the managers and tending to the rich folk before the career oriented students, that sounds messed up. Did you have the unfortunate experience of going to AF? Please, please, if there is anyone out there who has gone to AF in Santa Monica, please share your experience with me. You have no idea how grateful I will be to you! Thanks a bunch!

Rip Off Central
 

... that's what I'd call that dump down in Santa Monica. I went down there several years back to look into getting my CFI. They put me with some old tool who thought his Sh!t didn't stink because he was a mechanic for evergreen and apparently the only idiot with enough experience to teach a CFI. He wanted to "check" my knowledge to see if I was capable of doing a CFI in a couple of weeks. So, he gave me this GK (general knowledge) session that lasted a couple of hours, and taught me nothing. Then charged me $250 for it. Needless to say, I gave that place the finger, and never went back. You'd be better off going to a Mom-and-Pops flight school, where they won't at least pretend to be something they are not...

Good Luck

I did my instrument and comm at AF SMO very recently and have sat in on the CFI academy numerous times to see what it's all about. If it's up to date info you want, PM me.

Am flyers in dallas?
 

I am planing to attend their cfi/cfii acedemy in dallas any info would be helpful

Well, you are there for 30 days straight. Pretty much every day starts at 8am with a 3 or 4 hour session with an instructor (or two 2-hr sessions with two different instructors). Around noon or so people break for lunch and then come back to the classroom to prepare their individual lesson plans and practice teaching them to the rest of the class, giving and receiving critiques. In terms of the AF curriculum you will start with mind-numbing ground study in preparation for the FOI/CFI/I writtens. This is totally stupid and you would be better off doing it with Mr. Gleim. The text that AF has created and then makes you buy is a waste of money. Anyway following that you will be required to prepare CFII lesson plans first, then CFIA following that. THe CFII checkride comes first, about ten days into the thing. The CFII ride is done in house, no one ever fails it unless you are really ill prepared. The initial CFI with an FAA examiner is a much much harder ride. Hints: 1. bring a laptop computer 2. commute from a house or hotel closeby 3. if you can, finish the writtens ahead of time and then ask about entering the program after the first week. Don't know if this is possible but it sure would save some money and about a week of stupidity. The following three weeks are worth it though, dont get me wrong.

I highly recommend AF of Santa Monica. You definitely want to go with all your writtens done. You really need to have a laptop.

As for Triumph it sounds like you didnt make it through the program which is no reason to give AF the finger. If you put in the time each day like they tell you to and you come with solid flying skills it is not a difficult program to get through. If anyone goes through the program there in SMO I suggest getting Pat Carey for the checkride.

The one thing they do not tell you before you get there is that the $3000 that they advertise is part 61 and to get the two ratings its a whole lot easier and cost effective to go part 141.

I did learn that ATP sucks from guys that came from there...just FYI.

this is why i quit working there. $190 an hour for solo in a 172. ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!! When I found this out, I went job hunting. I couldent see myself charging the outrageous price of $220 an hour for a 172 w/instructor. Where I am at now, it's only 151 an hour for a better equiped 172, w/ instructor. Not to mention the fact that the airplanes are better maintained at the FBO I'm at. We rent a 182RG for less than a 172 at AF. Most of their airplanes (AF's) don't have the best maint. either. They do the bare minimum to keep tem legal. I came across an instructor I used to work with the other day at AF, and he was 400AGL at VNY when the engine started to sputter and die. They also had an accident recently in an RG where the throttle cable detached from the carb because the bolt came loose. I thought things like that got saftey wired. Just give em a call and ask Lou what happened. He was on a Comm. checkride with a student. For the kind of money they charge, you'd also think that they would pay their instructors better.

They charge a lot and advertise themselves to the doctors and biz-men as the "premium" flight school. The uninformed wealthy folks assume that top price = top quality. Of course, their instructors are the same 300-hour types you'd get at any puppy-mill :rolleyes:

They have some newer 172's, but they don't justify $200/hour.

I am a 12,000 hour Airbus captain at Fedex and researched several schools for my son, including the horrendous ripoff ATP, I personally visited the school in Santa Monica and American Flyers is the only school that will teach you how to teach. My son went through the school and yes it is expensive, but he absolutely loved it and everything about it. He went in not sure whether he would be an instructor and came out extremely confident. Nationwide about 20 percent pass their CFI's on the first try. All 4 members of my sons class passed it on the first go round. Its not some shyster ripoff like the other big advertisers. Its the real deal. I HIGHLY recommend it.

:eek::eek::eek: Wow. Just wow. You got had.

Shyster ripoff?? CFI/CFII for a min of 5000? No thanks. The CFI is self study. If your gona spend 5000 for a cfi then go to a place that will get you all the CFI ratings and actually give you a job. Who would actually step foot in an AF location to train? 200 dollars for a 172?

3 Years Later...
 

Wow! It's been over 3 years since my original post! I just wanted to thank everybody for replying to me about AF in Santa Monica.

Believe it or not, I never made it down there to "scope out" the place. Today, I found out that I have not flown in over 3 years. Long story short, I recently got the idea in my head to finish (start over) my CFI training. Again, AF in Santa Monica popped into my head. I called them, but I got a guy in Texas. He was very friendly, but said he'd just started working there. Then, I got the main office (recruiter) guy in Santa Monica, but what got me about him was that he was pushy and didn't listen to me entirely. His email after our phonecall was very professional though. I asked him that if I had my 2 writtens done (I don't, but could feasibly get them quick...my last ones expired), could I get through ONLY the CFI (initial) in 7 days. He told me that it was doable in 7-10. I also advised him that it had been "forever" since I'd flown a plane, and he said that it would be okay because we would just have to fly "a little" more. He said, the program is mainly ground and learning to teach. He also quoted me at $2500 - $5000 as the total cost for ONLY CFI. Does that seem accurate to you guys?

I called a nearby "mom and pop" flight school in my town (I should mention I live 8 hours north of Santa Monica, CA) about scheduling the writtens and meeting with a CFI for a sign off (I have the CFI king schools CDs). While talking with them, they asked why I wasn't doing it at their school (another LONG story), I told them it was because during my last rodeo with them my instructor flaked out. The guy I was speaking with guaranteed me that that would not happen again, as they have a completely dedicated instructor. The guy also told me that if I go through them, it will cost less than $2000 because it costs $125 to rent a 172 and $45 for the instructor. These planes are well kept, but so old that one of them has a MPH gauge instead of NM! Hahaha! But, the school is local. I spoke with the instructor who would be working with me, and he seems confident and honest, but I can't be sure. I have lost my faith in flight schools. I filled him in on my situation and he said that he could finish me in 7 days if I was really dedicated. I said that if I was doing it here, I wouldn't mind taking longer...I just want to actually LEARN something. He said it would take a lot of work on my part, but that if I did decide to go here, I would not regret it. Also, he said if I finish through this school, I could instruct out of there, but I'd have to pull in my own clients. Only thing is, no one wants to learn to fly here in this city or any nearby towns! Haha! Sad, huh? I suppose I could live off of BFRs...

At any rate, I'm torn as to what to do. I really need some solid advice. I don't have anyone locally that I can talk to about this major decision. Part of the problem is that I'm going to pay for this via credit card, so it's not like I have the money. I bring in less than $300 a month at my current job. I'm also a student at the university here (which is why I want to finish as soon as possible before the fall semester begins...lest I put it off another year...)

FYI: I have my commercial, instrument, and my 3rd class medical is still good as of the new rules. I am going to go get a new medical (2nd class) this coming Tuesday, because my 3rd will expire in Nov. and you need a 2nd to instruct anyway...

What should I do??? I'm so torn! Please help!

I can't believe the last time I wrote about this, it was 3 years ago, and I haven't touched a plane since then!

The crappy old flight school I mentioned when I first posted on this thread went bankrupt and kept $12,000 of mine! That's why I have trust issues now... and also no money to fly... :'(

Any advice? I miss being up in the sky...

Thank you all for reading this novel of a post...sorry for the length...

Forget about flying until you finish your degree. Don't EVER put flight training on a credit card with a $300 a month income. Just wait until you get the degree finished and have a way to pay for flight training without going into great debt.

I'm sorry it took me so long to respond to you. I updated my email address in my profile and they decided that they had to re-validate my account here. It was odd, but now I know for next time--don't change my email address! Haha.

Anyway, thank you so much for the prompt response. My responsible side was leaning toward the direction you suggest, but I wanted to see what other people would do as well. I really appreciate your honest feedback :)

I think I will heed your advice...it just sucks that I have to wait another 2-ish years before I get to fly again... :'(

Thanks again! :D

Monetary issues aside, which route of schooling would you take (for future reference)? Thanks for any advice! :)