Path to becoming a pilot?
 

I am 27 years old and I've wanted fly airplanes ever since I was a child dreaming about being a fighter pilot in the AF. Now I am a Senior Software Engineer and never joined the military nore learned how to fly. Even though I make really good money it is not fullfilling. Hence, here I am now looking for something new. I've been reading these boards and searching the web, but I still have questions regarding the basics of becoming a pilot.

1) If you do not use a flight school to become a pilot what are the steps and the time and money involved to do so? I see there are ppl on both sides of flight school. I am one who tends to lean more towards experience over simulation. In my field now degrees are nice but we take ppl with experience and the knowhow over a piece of paper.

2) What do all these abbreviations mean? CFI, CFII, MEI, PPL, FAR Part 61, FAR Part 141, FAR Part 121, or any other import ones I should know.

3) How long does it take before you are eligible to fly the large planes for the major airlines?

4) How hard is it to find jobs in the area you live. Phoenix, AZ is where I am at now.

5) Can I stay in my current career while attempting to become a pilot if it is done without going to a flight school.

A little more about me. I am the sole provider of my family with a wife and four kids. Should this prevent me from attempting this career change?

Thanks in advance.

1) Generally, this varies. Prices can be from $4000 up for your private, and from then on it depends on where you go. Schools with newer aircraft tend to be higher priced. If you already have a 4 year degree, don't worry about that part as most airlines do not specify what the degree should be in.

2) CFI, CFII, MEI are abreviations for various flight instructor ratings. First one being initial, second being an instrument instructor, third is Multi engine instructor. I don't know where the PPL one came from, but I think people use it for "private pilot license". FARs are the Federal Aviation Regulations which can be found in chapter 14 of the Code of Federal Regulations. Basically, these are the laws governing flight. Part 61 outlines the prerequesite requirements for the various ratings. Part 141 covers FAA approved flight training programs, and part 121 is what governs the airlines. I would throw part 91 in there as well. That's a biggie. You can pick up a book containing these at most bookstores (I know Borders carries it) or look online for free.

3) Don't hold your breath. I'm sure you see what's going on in the industry right now. Most aren't hiring and those that are have many well-qualified applicants to pick from. It could take more than 10,000 hours of flying which could be as long as 15 years from the time to start.

4) If you want to instruct, AZ is a great place. With the good weather there seems to be nearly as many large flight schools in that state as there are in Florida. Aside from that, I'm not sure. Most people I know in the industry have had to move a number of times because you usually can't commute when you're the low guy on the totem pole.

5) Sure. Lots of people go flying after work just like going to the golf course. However, you should be warned that it takes lots of hard work if you want to get through the ratings the fastest (and thereby cheapest) way possible. It's like playing a musical instrument. The more you practice, the better you get. If you can devote two or three days per week to flying and a few hours per week studying at home you should be able to work through the ratings pretty fast.

Ok, now onto the sole provider part. You may want to consider all of this based on that one. I'm sure you see the pay published on this board and say, "wow, $15 an hour is tolerable". However, that is only when your plane isn't at the gate. You'll spend 10 or more hours per day working while being paid for about 6 hours at a regional. Before that, you'll be making even less as a flight instructor. I'm about to take my CFI exam. If I'm lucky, I'll clear $20k per year flight instructing for a year or two. I don't have kids or a family to provide for and I know I'll have a second job to make ends meet. If you can manage keeping your current lifestyle on that pay more power to you. I'm not trying to discourage you, but if I were in your position, I'd take the lessons as a hobby, and one day when you're well-off I'd buy a plane so you can fly you family to cool places for vacation.

Hiring In The Future..
 

Hey, Im A Student At Kansas State Univ, Enrolled In The Flight Program. I Have About 3 More Years Here Before Im Eligible For A Job At A Regional Airline. After These 3+ Years Will The Airlines Still Be Hiring? If So Do U Think They Might Go Back To The 1500 Hrs Time?

Regionals are hiring at lower times. However, the original poster was asking about majors and flying bigger jets.

This industry could be totally different in 3 years. There are no guarantees that what is forcasted will happen. It's too dynamic and there are too many variables to say what will happen in six months much less three years.

There is one thing you can count on - military will need pilots.

I suggest you apply for a pilot training slot with the military - even if you don't get one try spending 4-6 years in uniform as an officer...You won't regret it.

-LA

I agree with LA about the Military. You get great training, serve with great people, and obtain great experience, while you serve your country. But make sure you know what you are getting into. It's not for everyone. Long TDY's away from family, constant moves and a long service commitment to name a few. I also think that there is a max age in order to be accepted into pilot training. It used to be 27 yrs but that was sometime ago.

some of us dont have 20/20 vision :(

AF and PRK surgery
 

All,

You can still join - even commission without 20/20. I did. I enlisted with 20/blind in both eyes and was able to get the AF to pay for my PRK surgery and now have 20/20. My roommate at OTS had the surgery done before he joined the AF or took his commissioning physical and he is now flying f-15s for the AF. As long as your eyes stabilize and you don't have halo effects you are good to go...

The AF accepts PRK surgery for flight / officer candidates.

To ensure my information is current check with the local recruiter- don't take his work , ask to see official memo / paper from AFPC or USAF medical corps...

Hope that helps...Remember AF has more than fighter pilots...In a fighter you can't go take a **** , make coffee, eat a donut, flirt with the nurse, etc...



-LA

no kidding? i read everywhere that you cant have laser corrective surgery because it changes the reflectivenss of your retina to above .55 a;oiftusoighsdg or something along those lines?! damnit i should try for afrotc at tcu. i guess that would require staying for a 5th year? oh darn

i think there woudl be nothing better than flying a c5 for the air force.

"tell me about your past experience"
i flew the biggest american airplane in and out of hostile territory with 300,000 pounds of precious military cargo.

and LAflyer. you said you enlisted? so you were not commissioned? and in relation to your buddy, who knows when f15 is done with and f22 and f35 take over? <3 f22

and speaking of taking a ****. an xgf "type" of girl's brother in law is the f16 demonstration pilot for some base in utah. his name is dax so you can search him very easily. anyway, at some point he was in a group crossing the pacific and one of his wingmen had to poo so he unbelted and was going to crap in his helmet bag. well somehow his harnesses got wrapped around the f16s super sensitive stick and pushed it down. without harnesses he got pastered to the canopy and crashed into the pacific.

"oh did he get shot down over iraq?"
errrr.. no he was taking a **** over the atlantic

oops. atlantic* finally 25th post

Time2Fly
 

Time2Fly,

Some dreams are best left as a dream. If you ever ventured to flightinfo.com you would be able to read a story about how the founder passed away in a plane crash a month or so ago. He left behind a wife and several young children. You have much bigger things to think about. You have already made your choices in life. Aviation is dangerous and offers low pay for the first decade or so. It probably would take you 15 to 20 years to become competitive enough to apply to fly a big jet. By then your kids will be grown and gone and you will have missed it all while on reserve in a strange city. I don't even think that you can get life insurance until you reach 500 hours total time. I would let it go if I were you.

SkyHigh

I enlisted - finished my BS on active duty then commissioned.

F-15 will be phased out and replaced with the F-22. F-22s are operational as of two weeks ago...I see them at Langley all the time.

The AF medical center at Lackland preformed the PRK surgery on me - I didn't complain - the pre/post operative care was incredible...My eyes have never been better...

-LA

Time2fly...you are 27, a wife and 4 kids...forget about a career as a pilot. I`m assuming you don`t have an extra 35,000 bucks to buy your tickets and flight time and if you tried to do it on your own, you would spend years doing it part time. I spent 39 years in aviation, am retired and glad of it. My son is a 38 year old, flying copilot for a major airline in bankruptsy and doesn`t know what he can or will do if his company fails, and I dion`t know what to advise him to do. You can shake a tree and 5 pilots will fall out of it. If you have a good job with benifits and medical, think hard about chucking it for aviation...My two cents worth.

If you have money to burn - take the lead of my avatar...Invest it in an education related directly (engineering) or indirectly (business) to computers/technology...

The best money I spent was on my BS in telecommunications (yes, there is such a degree offered - its close to EE)...

-LA

Save your marriage. Having grown up flirting with the poverty level I wouldn't wish that on anybody. If I had kids I'd probably be taking a different path at this point on my career because I'm having a hard enough time making ends meet with only one in the household, me.

You could still take that unfulfilling job and do some cool stuff in aviation. By all means, learn to fly. Don't make it a career, make it a hobby. Build a homebuilt, instruct part time, become a pilot examiner, or buy a plane and use it to take your (still in-tact) family to cool places. It would be much more fulfilling than making it a career at this point in your life.

Time2Fly
 

I don't think that Time2Fly is even reading our carefully thought out gems of wisdom. Are you even out there Time2Fly ??

SkyHigh

Try the Cirrus
 

Check out AirSafety at Glendale Municipal. The prices are VERY comparable and most of your training is done in a Cirrus SR-20. If you are not failure with the aircraft, check it out on Cirrus' websight. It sounds like this aircraft would be right up your alley. The owners name is Dee Pinkston and if you set up a tour he will set you up with a free Cirrus demo flight. Have fun!

Pathway to becoming a pilot
 

if you're thinking of doing it in the AF, do it now. Cut off age is 27.

global world/job security
 

Coming from someone who with a Masters in Computer Visualization Sciences, (CG effects with film credits to his name), the job market these days is no less fragile than the airline industry. Outsourcing overseas is draining any security computer related jobs once may have held (unless you speak Hindi) That's why I'm actually thinking about Aviation. As long as every job is on the rocks... might as well enjoy what we do while standing in the unemployment lines together. Whether looking at a flat panel screen working 120 hour weeks or through a glass cockpit, at the end of the day it's just a job.

You might want to check on the age limits for the military though. The Navy and the Marine Corps right now are 27, I am not sure about the AF though. Guard and Reserve units have different requirements than active duty

I am a new member to APC but I have been reading a number of your posts for over a month. It's a good place to get a smile. I like the positive thread so I thought I would make my move and ask some daunting questions I'm dealing with. I am a private pilot with an instrument rating (piston single). I am married with a kid on the way and about to go through ATPs airline pilot program. My wife and I am prepared to make only $18k a year and to fight through the airline business cycles. If anyone feels nice, please offer a guy some advise following your footsteps....
1) Truly, how often will I be gone? I live in Fayetteville, NC. Is it realistic to think I can commute to wherever and not move to a hub city? I am close to Raleigh, Charlotte and relatively close to Atlanta. Chitaqua and ASA serve Fayetteville. ASA for Delta 4 times a day to Atlanta and Chitaqua for US Airways 5 times a day to Charlotte. Is it realistic to hope for a job with one of them?
2) How does the reserve thing work? Are you stuck in the hub city(which from what I have read is the Base??) or will I have, say, a 48 hour notice to be somewhere.
3) I won't be done training and teaching with ATP for about 6 months. Do you think the regionals will still be sucking up pilots?
4) It seems that most of you fly between 80-100 hours a month. Is that about right?

Thanks to anyone willing to help. Hope the best to you all.

The age cut-off for the Air Force is waiverable up to 30. You must be commissioned and entered into initial pilot training prior to your 30th birthday. I found this out about a year ago, when I was 31, and about to finish my degree.

A month ago, I called the Army to see what their cut-off was for flying helicopters as a Warrant Officer. Their official cut-off is waiverable up to age 33. But the problem is, they have plenty of younger guys appying for the program, so getting in on a waiver is next to impossible.

So, at the age of 32, I've got to make some hard decisions. Stay in the Air Force as an enlisted guy and just fly recreationally. Apply for OTS next year and still get commissioned, however only fly recreationally. Or get out and take my chances in the aviation industry in the pursuit of my dreams of flying as a career.

I still haven't made that decision. I've been sitting on the fence for the past few months. I need to make the decision over the next few days, as my window to reenlist is expiring soon...

Actually, you don't need a waiver if you haven't turned 30. So over 30 could be waiverable. I've seen it twice personally...one was a Nav who's Herc unit was converting to J models(no Navs) and one knew a General in the Pentagon...not very good odds for the average guy.

The ascensions program officer told me 27 was the cut-off for the Air Force. But, with a waiver, they'd accept a candidate up to age 30.

Yeah, sometimes it's, "who you know."