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apparently mom and pop training wont get you jobs...

Old 03-20-2008, 11:43 PM
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Default apparently mom and pop training wont get you jobs...

http://www.news-journalonline.com/Ne...IZ02032108.htm







March 21, 2008
Do you believe you can fly? Be a pilot -- airlines need more
By MELISSA GRIGGS
Business Writer DAYTONA BEACH -- Airline passengers, already inconvenienced by canceled flights, may need to worry about flight safety if the airlines can't avert the growing crisis of a pilot shortage.Educators and airline executives gathered this week at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University to discuss solutions to the pilot shortage at the 2008 National Training Aircraft Symposium.
In a sharp turnaround, the American airline industry has gone from cutting thousands of jobs after Sept. 11 to scrambling for pilots.
William Voss, head of the Flight Safety Foundation in Virginia, said Thursday he is concerned the shortage of pilots may affect safety.
In the United States, where thousands of experienced pilots were laid off and left the industry, regional carriers have been giving jobs to pilots with considerably less experience than would have been required 15 years ago.
Aviation analysts say the lack of experience is starting to affect flight safety; they point to a crash in Indonesia last year that killed 21 people. Initial findings from the probe into the crash suggest a miscue between the veteran pilot and his rookie co-pilot may have contributed to the crash.
At some airlines, pilot shortages have led to flight cancellations. Last summer, Northwest Airlines canceled about 1,200 flights because it didn't have enough pilots to replace those who were grounded after reaching their maximum allowed hours.
In an effort to retain experienced pilots, United States airlines have raised the mandatory retirement age from 60 to 65. But the airlines still face an uphill battle for pilots, seeking to fill about 17,000 jobs a year during the next few years.
The pilot shortage has been a good news/bad news development for Embry-Riddle. On the one hand, the school's graduates are in great demand, with no problem finding jobs upon graduation. But now the school has a harder time keeping graduates to serve as flight instructors.
Frank Ayers, chairman of the Embry-Riddle Flight Department, said the school is offering incentives to get graduates to stay on as flight instructors for six months to a year. The instructors get generous bonuses, benefits packages and free tuition for a master's degree.
Ayers said the instructors leave as more seasoned pilots "after they've flown with students, who in a very nice way, have done everything they can to kill you in a plane."
Airline flight directors at the Embry-Riddle symposium said they are concerned they are getting pilots from flight schools who may meet the flight hour requirements, but still aren't qualified.
Dave Bushy with Cape Air, a regional airline for JetBlue Airways, said 30 percent of the pilots joining its training program fail. "No one from Embry-Riddle has failed," he said. "The problem is not with the accredited institutions, but with the mom-and-pop flight schools."
Ron Karp, a professor at Arizona State University, suggested one solution to the pilot shortage is to form partnerships between aviation colleges and airlines. His school has joined with Mesa Air Group to train pilots.
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Old 03-21-2008, 12:20 AM
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Hard to believe that wasn't a PRNewswire feed.

As for airlines "scrambling" for pilots, amazing what difference a few weeks makes.
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Old 03-21-2008, 04:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Scooter2525 View Post
Frank Ayers, chairman of the Embry-Riddle Flight Department, said the instructors leave as more seasoned pilots "after they've flown with students, who in a very nice way, have done everything they can to kill you in a plane."
It's a 'cute' statement, however, it's old and addresses the effectiveness or lack there of preflight preparation.

I know a US Navy test pilot that earned his PVT from a mom&pop and I also know a prestigious aviation university graduate that dragged a wingtip.

I knew how to recover from a stall before my first flight.....because I could read.

If you can read, you can learn whatever you want......
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Old 03-21-2008, 05:12 AM
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What do you expect coming from Embrey Riddle, it's how they will stir up business, and who knows, with the right gullible politician they could probably make some crazy law that to be hired by an airline, now it takes accredited training, as much BS as most of us already know that is.

Training for me is dependant on who you are training. Obviously most of the people looking for training can be swayed and go somewhere that's not capable of giving them the education they need to supplement the basics of flying to move onto a more complicated aircraft and operation.
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Old 03-21-2008, 06:35 AM
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IMO, I feel that often training outside these accredited gives more of a real world experience then the standard profile at those flight schools give.... not to say you can't learn a lot from them...
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Old 03-21-2008, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Scooter2525 View Post
IMO, I feel that often training outside these accredited gives more of a real world experience then the standard profile at those flight schools give.... not to say you can't learn a lot from them...
And honestly, a lot of that comes from who your instructor is. I definately gave "real world" training, meaning I didn't confine my students to just any airport, any airspace, etc... We hit it all, all situations I could possibly throw at them, etc... And I had some fine students turned pilots out there now!!!
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Old 03-21-2008, 08:10 AM
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Cape Air...they are the industry trend-setters for sure.

If you believe any of Riddle's propaganda, then you deserve to spend the next 25 years repaying that $120K

You can get good, bad, or mediocre training at large universities, academies, and small shops. It's up to the customer to perform due diligence...the term "Caveat Emptor" was coined thousands of years ago, but it never achieved it's full meaning until the advent of general aviation The only thing for certain: you will pay huge bucks at the large puppy mills.
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Old 03-21-2008, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Scooter2525 View Post
IMO, I feel that often training outside these accredited gives more of a real world experience then the standard profile at those flight schools give.... not to say you can't learn a lot from them...
<Sarcasm>Easie now, I gradiated from Embery Ridel, we's good pilots ya hear!</Sarcasm>
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Old 03-21-2008, 09:51 AM
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Anyone know about the crash in indonesia they are quoting in this article? If it was a "miscue" between the two pilots, sounds like CRM is the problem, not necessarily experience.

Every time I think about the pinnacle crash during the ferry/joyride, I fear that people are going to confuse stupidity with lack of experience. They are far different animals.
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Old 03-21-2008, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Diver Driver View Post
<Sarcasm>Easie now, I gradiated from Embery Ridel, we's good pilots ya hear!</Sarcasm>

I graduated from UVU (old UVSC)

I agree, it really is up to the instructor to help prepare (read help, studend needs to do there part) the student for the real world. I feel my current occupation has taught me more about flying then I learned in flight school. Then again, this is a completly differnt beast then flying at flight school. I don't think its fair for the article to assume that only good pilots from from EMR....
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