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USAF vs. ERAU

Old 02-10-2006, 05:52 PM
  #21  
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Ohh and to answer your other thread yes riddle has a 3 times per week schedule. htis is manditory. But if you want to fly more useually you can ask your instructor and he/she will put you on for more flights. We also have ADS-B with is really cool + we have some of the newest A/C around. I promise you will be a damn good pilot when you finish
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Old 02-10-2006, 05:59 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by rheidorn
I promise you will be a damn good pilot when you finish
That's what the ERAU alum keep telling us....
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Old 02-10-2006, 06:01 PM
  #23  
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dude what the heck
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Old 02-10-2006, 06:03 PM
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well im not saying were perfect but I had a good time and feel i learned a lot.
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Old 02-10-2006, 09:25 PM
  #25  
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rheidron thanks for your input. i suppose the deciding factor will probably be cost because when i start college my parents will also be paying for my two older sister that will be in college. i have another question.

1. lets say i just have just started at college (either ERAU or UND). Is there a set lenght of time i will be working for my PPL? does everyone work and the same pace? in other words does everyone earn their certificates at the same time?

2. Within 4 years is it possible to get all the way to a MEI?

Thanks
 
Old 02-13-2006, 12:05 PM
  #26  
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Thumbs up Here goes........

Boeing 777,

I have been hawking this board for quite some time now, and I registered just to reply to this. I try my hardest to avoid coming across as preachy, but I really think the Air Force (and its Academy) has not had a fair shake in this thread (or the board in general). Hopefully this reply will help others considering the Air Force, as well. Disclaimer: This is in no way saying which path to the "gold" is better. This is only meant to be a long ranting on my point of view

Let's start chronologically (getting into the Academy to graduating pilot training). Some people have mentioned how it is hard to get into the Academy. That statement is every bit grounded in reality, BUT it's a very misleading one at that. Take me for instance. At age 17 and nearing college, I cared nothing of my future, unless it involved my fairly successful wrestling career, or where the next party was going to be. Needless to say, my cumulative GPA upon graduation was a 2.7!

One day though, I realized the parties were coming to an end, and I needed a future that didn't involve flipping burgers. How did I end up with an appointment to the AFA? Perseverance. Now THAT is what the Air Force wants to see in its future officer core. Ya ya, they want varsity lettermen, they want leaders, they want the SAT's, they want the GPA, but when it comes down to it, if you show the Air Force that "Dang-it, I don't care what that guy's numbers are or how many clubs he lead, I WANT THIS MORE THAN HIM."

In fact, I didn't even get straight into the Academy! My numbers were SO mediocre, that I had to be admitted to the Air Force Academy Preparatory School (an AWESOME deal) to get my grades up and prove to the Academy that I could hack it. I could start another entire thread on why the Prep school is such a great deal, but I won't. All said, the Prep school is an EXCELLENT year of both academic and personal maturity that you will gain, not to mention a guaranteed slot at the Academy (and you are getting PAID the whole time too!).

Think your grades are still too bad to get into even the Prep School? No prob! There's numerous other routings to ultimately end up at USAFA. Many of my classmates did a one or two semester stint at one of the civilian prep schools: Northwestern Prep, New Mexico prep, Valley Forge (I think). The list can go on. Basically, refer to the above point, if you show PERSEVERANCE, the Academy officials will want you. By attending a military prep school, you are telling them "Hey, look at me, I've done well here at this school, and I'll do the same at yours."

STILL aren't convinced? How about enlisting in the Air Force? My wife, in fact, can attest to this personally. She enlisted in the Air Force with even WORSE grades than mine (she was an even bigger partier than me!). Only one year later in the active duty Air Force, she applies and gets accepted to the Academy. The Academy LOVES enlisted applicants. They bring leadership and experience to the cadet wing that is truly rare and highly desired. Holy cow, are we seeing a theme here? Oh and by the way, the entire time she's enlisted she earns very good money, it counts towards her 20 years active duty if she desires to retire, and she's eligible for the Montgomery GI Bill in case the Academy thing doesn't work out.

So let's say you get in. You made it. Awesome. The fun(?) is about to begin. There's no way around it, the first year sucks. It sucks because they purposely stuff 25 hours of SH*T to do in a 24 hour period. You can't do all of it. You have to prioritize. Grades sucking? Study your ars off and have your roommate shine/iron your uniform. It's this absolute saturation with things to do, and the subsequent bonds you form with your classmates that will last you through the Academy and your career.

Okay so you make it through the first year and you're itching to fly/do something in the air. Guess what, you've got ALL KINDS of things to do that civilian universities simply are not afforded the opportunity to do. I personally joined the skydiving team, "Wings of Blue." Know what I did? I was a 20 year old college student instructing the only military free-fall school in the world certified to jumpmaster and instruct first-time students that had never had a skydive in their life. I was the jumpmaster in the back of a "Twin-Otter" in charge of a plane load full of first time students that had eyes the size of golf balls the first time I flung open that door at 4500' AGL.

In addition to my instructing duty, I was on their competition team and went on to receive 13 National level awards. Oh ya, and I also parachuted into major league baseball games, NASCAR races, parades, football games, air shows........all to the sound of millions of screaming fans. I could never put into words how much leadership, confidence, and lifelong bonds I gained in those three years on the Wings of Blue.

Skydiving not your bag? Man do I have a deal for you. Not only does the Academy own/maintain a huge squadron of gliders, but they charge the cadets with running and instructing this squadron! Again, much like the Wings of Blue, you will be a 20 year old taking another 20 year old up on their initial flight teaching them the basics of flight over the beautiful Colorado Rockies. Their's even a cross-country competition and an exhibition team if you really want to fly around with your hair on fire. Ever pulled 5 G's in a glider? Join the exhibition team and you will.....

Think gliders are for geeks? Try the flying team! They too have an entire squadron of Cessna 150's that they train and compete against other teams in precision nav, landing competitions, etc. The flying team is definitely an awesome deal much like the above programs.

So lets say you still want to fly, and you're getting through the Academy just fine. I have some more great news. As long as you pass the Air Force physical (FAA Class 1 equivalent), you are pretty much GUARANTEED a pilot slot at Undergraduate Pilot Training (UPT). The slots are fairly hard to come by outside the Academy, so if you want to fly military jets, the Academy is the way to go.

WOW, you made it through the Academy and you're done. You are off to one of 5 spots for UPT. But first, you'll most likely spend 1-10 months on "casual" status waiting for your UPT class to start. In the mean time, you recover from the Academy, party your butt off, and have a great time with all those hundreds of friends you made in the above paragraphs.

You start UPT and 53 weeks later, you graduate a fully qualified Air Force pilot. During this training, you have accomplished an equivalent of approx. 400 hours flying anything from your simple Cuban-8 in a
T-37 tweet, to two-ship low level tactical navigation at 500' AGL and 360 kts in your screaming T-38C. All the while you are learning lessons in flying your civilian counterparts will rarely/never learn: formation flying, importance of formation integrity, airspeed/altitude/regulation discipline that will make your eyes water, and low-level navigation. You will graduate with an attitude that your hands alone could win the next World War

After graduation and assignment to your Major Weapon System (MWS, depends on if you received T-1A's or T-38C's out of T-37 training), you will promptly begin training for that system. 4-8 months later (again depending upon your selected MWS) you will graduate a fully mission qualified and ready for war!

All told, from walking up to the Academy's "Bring Me Men" ramp not even knowing how to spell Lieutenant (at age 19 as I did), to walking out of your MWS training squadron fully mission qualified, it took me just over 5 years.

Wow, so you've been flying the line a bunch lately, and you're maybe looking at getting out in order to live in one place for the time being. You better get your masters before you get out into the civilian world, huh? Got some more good news for you. The Air Force will pay your tuition for your masters. To illustrate, I'm currently being courted by Harvard and Yale to attend their MBA program...most likely on their dime. Again, this is not to brag, only to illustrate that your hard work and accomplishments DO NOT go unnoticed. As an academy grad and Air Force officer, you are a know quantity. They know what you have done, and what you are capable of. You have all kinds of options in case the Majors/FDX/UPS/Frax stint never pans out or the industry goes sour.

So let's add this all up. Some pundits have pegged the above mentioned training with the following dollar figures (I am not embellishing these at all):

Air Force Academy education: $300,000
Fully trained freefall jumpmaster with 1,000 skydives: $50,000
UPT flight training: $10,000,000 (I am not making this up, that is 7 zeroes)
MWS training (airframe specific, but I'll give you a range): $100,000-$5,000,000

$300,000 + $50,000 + $10,000,000 + $2,000,000 = $12,000,000+

Guess how much I monetarily owe the Air Force? After receiving 4 years worth of ivy-league education, top notch flight training, skydiving, friendships and bonds that will last a lifetime, and most importantly, the love of my life (yes I did the Blue for all you Grads reading this ) I owe the following figure:

$0

Yep, I owe nothing. And the 8 years I owed for service? Are you kidding me? I would do that even if I didn't have a commitment. 8 years is a mere blip in today's life expectancy numbers. The variety of stations, airframes, assignments and the excitement I get everytime I go up in the air makes it all worth it. And I get paid very well, to boot.

I hope this helps you, and others in your situation. I would tell you to PM me, but that's beyond me at this point. I'm tired and I need a beer. Oh, and if you haven't noticed, I'm writing this in the middle of the afternoon on a Monday. I took leave today because I felt like it. And so did my wife

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Old 02-13-2006, 03:49 PM
  #27  
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Let me defend my stance by saying that I went to Riddle. I did a years worth of flight training. I am now a pro-pilot and can't, for the life of me, see the advantage. I say this from a lot of experience. I have flown with Riddle grads and other pilots from a variety of backgrounds and I can say without blinking that the only thing the Riddle pilot's had was an 'I went to Riddle, so, I'm a good pilot' attitude.

Case in point...
certain person whom I fly with from time to time went to Riddle. He does stupid and dangerous things on a regular basis. Each time, I call him out on it, and he has no defense or his defense is really flimsy.

He has been dubbed 'plow boy' b/c he cannot fly one damned leg without using the spoilers. He climbs at high angles of attack through known icing, he descends on the GS prior to course interception...but...never misses the chance to tell you he went to Riddle. YAY!

I have known others...
2 guys, both I know personally, were not prepared to work in aviation b/c Riddle let them leave without a CFI and gave them a degree in Aviation Science ot some waste of time degree.

One works as a ramp agent for USA3000 and has 300 hours and 25 multi, the other hooks trains together for Amtrak. YIPEE!

As for rickair7777, I don't mean to be argumentative, but I got a good education. I went to the University of Delaware. I was taught by some great authors and artists. I had challenging courses too. I came out with a BA in Criminal Justice, and a AA in Philosophy and another in Psychology. If my medical left, I'd have a job tomorrow, and it wouldn't be throwing bags into a A319.
I left there and went to a vocational school for aviation and got a CFI, CFII, MEI and got a job after a year of teaching...been flying ever since. But I could get a job doing a LOT of things, thanks to a diversified education.

If I had it to do all over again,
I would have left high school, went to a vocational training school for a CFI and worked through college. That way, when I left at 23, I'd walk right into the right seat of something high and fast. But, I did it the wrong way and it took til age 26. Go figure.

Last edited by FuelJetA; 02-13-2006 at 03:54 PM.
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Old 02-13-2006, 04:00 PM
  #28  
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FREEFALL_Pilot,

I read that great post top to bottom and you are SO very right. Whatever happened to the old time when pilots were ex-military and got the respect they certainly earned through lot of education and experience?
I understand why some people don't want to go the military route (like myself) but all your points are valid. I believe the US military will give a pilot the absolute best start they could ask for and one that money cannot buy.

I qualified via physical and AFOQT test scores, but chickened before board over the whole Iraq thing...sometimes I still think about having gone through to see what might have happened. Then, I think about being home with my wife and son and it makes that guilt vanish.

GREAT POST! We need to see more of you.

Have a Good Day!
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Old 02-13-2006, 06:02 PM
  #29  
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Great post above...however I think a few of your numbers are off.

UPT $10 Mil? That would be almost $48K per flight hr. I think $1M is more in line with the real cost. Approx 210-220 hrs for Fighter/Bomber track.

It's a 10 year hitch now for flyers.

What are you flying?
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Old 02-13-2006, 06:37 PM
  #30  
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FuelJetA,

Thanks for the compliment. I've had this reply stewing in my brain since last night when I stumbled on this thread.

//Break//Break//

Slice,

I have seen both numbers published. Although none of them are official, I was on your side when I saw them both. $10Mil seemed a bit steep, but after the quick explanation on where those numbers were drawn upon, it seems possible. Here's what they were considering (many of them are very fuzzy, and can be argued):

Fixed cost (and overhead):
1. Cost of all buildings, dorms, their depreciation, and all maintenance required for them
2. Basewide civilian labor manning the different squadrons (as the Air Force has shifted to more of a civilian manned force)
3. Simulators, their maintenance, Boeing/LSI instructor force
4. Pubs, flight suits, other assorted crap you never use
5. Crew chiefs and other personnel involved in launching all the jets
6. The cost to screen you (IFT program), and medically qualify you
7. Lifesupport equipment (G-Suits, helmets, parachutes, visors, etc.)
8. Required or desired airframe upgrades (T-38C for example)

Variable costs:
1. The atrocious amount of JP8 we gulp in one flight hour
2. Maintenance on all those old planes
3. Tires, oil, hyd. fluid, etcs.
4. Cross country travel expenses
5. Runway, huffer, taxiway maintenance

I'm sure there were more they listed, but this is a quick rundown of what I can remember. Looks to me to be well over $1mil if you include the fuzzy expenses in addition to the obvious ones (JP8, maintenance, etc.).

FREEFALL_Pilot

By the way, I've heard rumors of lots of people only getting the 8 year commitment, as I have. I was *supposed* to have a 10 year, but lo-and-behold, look at my MPF file, and it only has me owing 8 years active. Many of my classmates have the same....
 
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