mistarose

Part 119 says we can do not-stop scenic flights within 25 sm of an airport.

And of course you can advertise and "hold out" for this sort of operation.

My question is, can I, the commercial pilot rent an airplane and have people pay for the scenic flight I give them in that airplane?

ERJ135

Hi,

Typically the customer rents the plane from the flight school and the flight school should pay you to fly it. I don't believe there is anything that is illegal about it but the flight school may not approve of it. Also keep in mind if you do scenic flights you need to be drug tested as well. Good luck

Chris

freezingflyboy

That sounds like a tricky proposition. I think you might run into problems if you are providing (ie renting) both the aircraft and the pilot services because you may be seen to take on the qualities of a "commercial operator" in which case you would need an operating certificate. I would talk to an aviation attorney about this one. Is it worth losing a certificate for a few hours of flight time in a C172? I know the FAA has been getting stricter with sight-seeing operators and has been trying to bring them under part 135 or 121 regulation. Be careful with this one.

ryane946

Flew gliders for a sight seeing operation while I was in college and it was some of the most fun I've had. People who have never touched the controls of an aircraft would shove out $150 for a 40 minute flight.
I can't tell you how many people proceeded to tip me $20 after I got paid my $20 for the 40 minute flight. Gotta love it.

GliderCFI

Gliders rock.

rickair7777

91 specifically allows you to do the 25NM sightseeing thing, as long as it's point A back to point A. Doesn't matter who supplies the airplane, or if you hold out or not, it's still legal. There are lots of other considerations though: Insurance, 100 hours, etc. If you want to do this, talk to your local FSDO.

nealsapilot

hi i'm a cfi, maybe i can help.

You stated that part 119 says that you "can" do scenic flights. I want everyone here to understand that you must read federal regulations very carefully. Please refer to 119.1(e).... it actually states that this part only "excludes" (does not apply to-) nonstop sightseeing flights and other flights such as student instruction, which actually means that part 119 has nothing to do with them.

You ask: "can I, the commercial pilot rent an airplane and have people pay for the scenic flight I give them in that airplane?"

I think what your really asking is if it is legal.

Basically, whenever you fly an aircraft you can only operate under one of two separate conditions. These are either "common carriage" OR "private carriage". For more information on these two types of flights please read Advisory Circular AC120-12A. You can search for this on the FAA Website.

You also stated that you are able to "hold out". I'm sorry to say, but you are wrong again. If you "hold out", which basically means advertising the service, you automatically make these types of flights under "common carriage". Operations that constitute common carriage are required to be conducted under either FAR's 121 or 135. I'm sure that this is not the case.

At this point we can say that these scenic flights must constitute "private carriage", because you cannot operate under 121 or 135. My best advise to you is to call your local FSDO and ask them about these types of flights. There are so many so called "gray" areas in commercial aviation, and any pilot would agree that there needs to be some clarification on it.

Many FBO's offer scenic flights to the public. These are flown by there own staff of pilots and flight instructors. These people are on the FBO's insurance plan. I'm almost positive that their insurance would not cover you if had any mishaps during your paid scenic adventures. If you asked the FBO, i'm sure they would say NO. I'm sure they would also start to be curious if they watched their airplane take off and return shortly there after, each time with different passengers on board.

I remember I was just like you. I was a fresh commercial pilot and just wanted to see how i could make money with flying. Really, the only way to make money flying with a fresh commercial certificate is to get your CFI and teach students. I think you will be suprised that you don't make much money doing that either.

Again, i would recommend contacting your local Flight Standards District Office and ask them your questions. I assure you that they have your answer. Don't risk it!

Good Luck.
nealsapilot

nealsapilot

hey, also read AC91.37A about truth and leasing.

rickair7777

I am a CFI too.

Go read the AC again... "Common Carriage" by the FAA's own definition consists of four elements, one of which is transport from point A to point B. Sightseeing (and photographic) flights which return to the point of origin cannot by definition be FAA Common Carriage. This is not hypothetical and this is nothing new, it's been this way for years.

I agree that anyone interesting in doing this type of flying should check with their local FSDO to avoid misunderstandings. I said this before.

FloridaPilot

Not to call anyone out, but I can not find in Part 91 where it specifically allows you to fly sightseeing tours within 25NM. Could you please tell me where that is, because I am researching this as well. Also, I just read AC120-12A and the definition does not say "point A to point B", it says "place to place". There is nothing in the AC120-12A definition of common carriage to indicate that flying these scenic flights for hire does not constitute common carriage. On the other hand, the regs in this area are very ambiguously written leaving us with a poor understanding of what is and is not legal. Thanks, and if you can tell me what the specific regs referred to above are, it would really help. Take care.