HoboPilot

I was a bit surprised to hear this as well. When he was flying between two towns, each town was of similar size and had a similar sized airport on west side of the town. I asked him how he could use radio navigation to verify his position. He told me that he wouldn't need to since he wouldn't get blown off course, but that if he had to he'd tune in the AWOS.

I was stunned that he'd say that. I don't know where he got it in his mind that he could use the AWOS for navigation. So I asked him what the frequency for the AWOS was. He read off the AWOS frequency which was a stand alone frequency. After asking him some questions about the AWOS, I got him to figure out that it was for weather reporting and that there was an NDB on the field he could use to verify his position.

HoboPilot

Thanks for all the advice guys, it's been really interesting to hear all the different approaches to the situation.

I think I'll give his instructor a call and let him know. While I was instructing him, this student was badmouthing his instructor for making him to extra training before his Private Pilot check ride, so he either has some issues with his instructor and will be no more likely to listen to him, or else he just has a problem with critique in general.

I really like the idea of taking him up on a night with marginal weather and seeing how he can fly just using towers as the basis for checkpoint references.

Something I just thought of too, is think of how many unlit tower NOTAMs you get in a briefing just for the terminal area? I wouldn't want to base my navigation off of something that might be there one day and the next.

SomedayRJ

I like this idea. Good way to realize your vulnerability is to get lost.

cfii2007

Know It Alls are actually Know Nothings...........

I've only had maybe one student like this.......basically got him through, signed him off and recommended he fly with another instructor for the remaining ratings.

Found out a little while later he busted both of those checkrides........

jesduke1102

we had a student like that he decided that he did not read the maneuvers Manuel that give them so the know the procedures because he "had thousands of hours on Microsoft flight sim"

Ewfflyer

I think everyone has hit the nail on the head, in this situation, if you were the students instructor, let Mr. Know-it-all go out there and show you how good they are. If it's another instructors student, you definately want to get in touch with them, and let them deal with the situation.

I was lucky, and only had a few 2-lesson know-it-alls that were so cocky and so horrible at what they thought they could do, they went elsewhere because I never backed down. My full-time students were great, the other guys are the types that will FBO to FBO looking for someone they can walk all over.

Pilotpip

Turn off the GPS, don't let him use the VORs. Let him get lost.

When I was a student, I observed a night x-c flown by a friend. This friend decided he didn't need the charts because he had the good 'ol 430 in front of him. Instructor turned both to an unusable page and covered the CDI. That was fun to watch.

When I was instructing, I had a student that would never use the rudder. He even went so far as to say that a plane wouldn't spin, trying to show me up in groundschool. He is an attorney after all.

We went out the next week and practiced power on stalls. Instead of getting mad and stepping on the rudder myself, I let the plane enter a spin. I knew this was going to happen so I had him start a couple thousand feet higher than normal. After about the second turn, I looked over at him and as calmly as I could said "planes don't spin huh?" He got the point. Never tried to prove me wrong again.

multipilot

Especially with hard headed students, be sure and document your troubles with the student. That way when their parents, or even worse his/her lawyer or an FAA inspector, come by to jump down your throat about why little Jonny Maverick hasn't moved along as fast as he should and is repeating lesson after lesson, you have some documentation to stand on. Be sure and also include the student's strengths in the comments as well so it doesn't appear so one sided.

The flight school I work for has avoided several problems from defensive students such as this because the instructor made appropriate documentation in the training folder. For example, we had one former student not to long ago that one of our instructors would not sign off for an instrument checkride. The student gave up on our flight school and went to another. The other flight school wouldn't sign him off right away either. Eventually, he found a cfi who would sign him off. Not to much longer after that, the guy got disoriented in IMC, flew into a thunderstorm, and ended up on the wrong side of the dirt. The NTSB briefly interviewed his assigned instructor at our flight school and was able to back up the student's attitude and lack of integrity with proper training documents.

One thing you'll learn as you progress through your CFI are all the different defense mechanisms students will use. Cubdriver also pointed out the hazardous attitudes and antidotes which you need to know as well.

I agree with the others that posted above who said take away all nav equip, etc and let him get lost (while you're sitting in the right seat of course). After all, learning is a change in behavior as a result of experience. Perhaps allowing him to make his own mistakes in a controlled training exercise will humble him a little and hopefully make him realize that he's not as invincible as he thought. Don't intentionally insult the student, because he'll just get even more defensive and make your job that much harder, but make a firm point. I usually remove GPS cards, cover up nav aids, instruments etc. when dealing with self proclaimed know it alls as others have already mentioned.

I once had a commercial student come to me with a flight plan off of DUATS. I asked him why he didn't do it himself using an E6B and a nav log and his response was, "I don't know a single commercial pilot who doesn't use DUATS". I decided to use a little humility to my advantage and remind him that he was not yet a commercial pilot and if wanted to pass the course he would have to plan it the "old fashoned way".

X-number years of ignorance and attitude cannot be cured in one hour of instruction, so as painful as it may be you'll have to be patient with these types of students and try to figure out a way to get their attention.

HoboPilot

Thanks for all the great help and anecdotes guys. I've definitely gotten some great ideas and new methods that will really help make me a better CFI, and hopefully result in training better pilots in the end.

While talking with my ground school instructor, he mentioned that while putting the student into a marginal situation, with several avionics failures would most likely prove to be a good learning experience for the student and help break the invulnerability hazardous attitude, if the student were to fly the flight well, it would only provide the student more false confidence and worsen the hazardous attitude.

While I think the chances of that happening would be rather unlikely, it got me to thinking about how to treat the situation, and I realized that the approach to each student would have to be unique.

Thanks again for the help guys. Just my experiences from my CFI ground school and flight lessons have gotten me to think more about flying than any of my previous ground schools, so I'm definitely looking forward to picking your brains further as I start instructing sometime next year!

Godzilla

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.

Charles Darwin