Airframe

For those of you that have worked at a regional or major airline, how hard is the actual training once the interview process is over? I was just curious to know how difficult it is compared to getting your instrument rating, CFI, etc.

rotorhead1026

My experiences (one long-established regional and one major - several mergers) were almost uniformly positive. The attitude was that "you're one of us and we're gonna get you through". Study, follow procedures, do as your told and you'll usually come out fine. The programs are usually well-established and time-tested, and there's a pilot group (and other experienced trainees) to answer questions.

I hear horror stories, though, and I'll bet you get a few of them on this thread.

rickair7777

It depends on a number of variables. The basic requirements are pretty straight forward, but there is a LOT to learn in a short period of time.

The big variables are the quality of the training program, the consistency of the instructors/evaluators, and how much help they will give you if you get in trouble. I have known airline training programs range from 1% to 50% attrition rate. Crappy regionals will usually have a higher fail rate when pilot supply/demand is in their favor, because they don't care about you and can easily replace you.

Indoc is pretty easy.

Turbojet systems are easy if you have an engineering degree or similar background, otherwise expect to work hard in systems class.

As an new-hire FO you may or may not have an oral interview based on the knowledge from indoc and systems.

As far as sim training, your background is a huge factor...

- If you are coming from a CFI job you are going to have to work your butt off. If the program is not stresful, you are probably not trying hard enough and will fail.

- If you have previous 135 turbine time it will be easier...you will be used to the pace, but there are many differences in 121.

- If you are coming from a 121 job in a similar airplane, it should be fairly routine. I did this once (same airplane) and I ended up with a lot of time to kill because I only had to learn those few things which were different frommy previous airline.

Bottom line, be prepared to work hard every waking hour if needed. Do NOT arrive at training with outstanding personal issues...attempt to get a deferred class date so you can resolve your problems first. The guys who are at the start of divorce proceedings always fail out.

Also be wary of taking a job at one of the bottom feeders which are known for throwing new-hires under the bus. If the sim instructors are outside contractors and not company employees, that is bad...they may view you as an annoying nuisance, not a brother pilot.

de727ups

I think the hard part is it's a firehose. They throw a lot at you in a short time and it's hard weed out the important part. If you take it all in at the same level of importance, your head will explode.

Where I work, there is a manual they give you that is a summary, quick and dirty, of the systems manual. That's a great help for the oral.

Anyhow, you're given the tools to succeed and most guys who have a good attitude and work hard will make it through.

To answer your question, I don't think it's any harder the the CFI. The CFI is a very hard certificate to obtain and I would guess the pass rate for the initial CFI is much lower than the pass rate for initial 121.

USMCFLYR

Rickair -

And how about those coming from a military background with little civilian time and no 121/135/91 experience?

USMCFLYR

rickair7777

Usually not a problem, the mil training (especially for tactical aircraft) is harder, so if you can get through that you can get through airline training. That's one of the reasons they like military pilots.

You as a fighter guy might be pretty busy compared to a transport type. I think the main cause of failure at majors is fighter guys who just don't get CRM...or refuse to get CRM.

Make sure you study up on basic 91 and 121 regs...airlines don't teach 91 regs or basic instrument flying, they expect you to know that when you arrive.

USMCFLYR

That type of knowledge and the actual flying of a airliner/bizjet are my main concerns. Systems have never been my strong point, though being in the positions of NATOPS and Safety for the last 6 years have certainly increased my knowledge. I think I am actually fairly good at the CRM part even for a single seat guy I've spent almost 7 years instructing now and I just gave up the CRM Model Manager job for the entire Legacy fleet - so I ought to at least be open to the civilian way of doing things
I ask this about the mil to civ transition because many of my peers have come back and commented on how challenging the type rating training at HP has been. None have failed - but many have said that it is one of the tougher things that they have done training wise.

USMCFLYR

rickair7777

I didn't say it would necessarily be easy, just that you could do it. There is a lot of new and different stuff naturally. But I wasn't worried about your CRM, that was just general info...

Roll Inverted and Pull

Let me tell you what worked for me, as far as learning the aircraft systems. I could never read the manuals and fully understand the various systems.I did this...take a piece of paper and draw a system...example..the fuel system. Do it enough so that you can take a drop of fuel from the tank, through each and every filter, pump, check valve and crossfeed in the system. Then do the same for the hydraulics and all of the others. If I could visualize the system, I could "get it". Dazzle them with your knowledge of the systems. Good Luck....

USMCFLYR

Agreed! Also - I spend a lot of time talking to the maintainers and asking questions about how things work. It really helps me seeing the parts. This will certainly be a big challenge and I look forward to it!

USMCFLYR