BusinessAsUsual

Im about 3 months away from graduating High School, relatively collge bound, and looking for world experiece.

I have a friend who has gone through all of his private pilots license requirements, and talking to him has made me want to fly. Getting my private pilots license has been an idea Ive always toyed around with ever since my dad took me up in his uncles plane, and recently its come to the forefront.

Ive got one real passion, and its history, Ive always wanted to be a teacher, but always found that the ones who come straight out of college are the worst kind, so I wanted world experience. Looking into the pay for cargo pilots, it made me want to try it out, Ive always been mechanically inclined, and tend to grasp concepts well.

My questions are really:
How much does it cost to become a cargo pilot? What about an airliner pilot? The romantic idea of flying to countries overseas sounds really fun, but I think I could be contented to domestic cargo if there was the money.

What sort of Major should I look at in college? I applied as History, and was planning on Law school afterwards, but most Lawyers (and the kind I want to become) do only paperwork, and the idea of doing that for 40 years is simply depressing.

How much can I really expect to make? I dont want to sound too materialistic, but money is a concern considering this is a career.
EDIT:Clearly off my rocker on that one.

How rewarding is flying? How much time is spent working? Can you adequately raise a family as a pilot?

Would you recomend the career path?

Thanks guys.

jetjock_b777

I'm still new in this field as I just completed my frozen ATPL and am only 21. However take my word or I'm sure the words of all here, flying is an experience that you cannot substitute with anything but ***. Sorry I just had to say that!!!

Getting a PPL is just the first step to take in a rather long process. I got my PPL and then straight away went and did my ATPL. Since I'm in Sri Lanka, I did the UK CAA syllabus. Doing a CAA or JAA program will help you alot. I'm sorry if I annoyed any FAA guys but it's something that our instructors have drilled into us. There are plenty of schools out there but look into a proper one. As for the pay, well, it is great but then I guess the more money you earn, the more things you have to spend it on. So it always seems like it's not enough!!

Good luck on you future endeavours!

Laxrox43

BusinessAsUsual,

If history is your thing, then go with it! Having a degree in something completely different from aviation is OK. It makes you more diverse. Even if you do not use it ever again, at least you will be going to college to do something that you truely enjoy!

Now as for the flying. What your best bet may be, is to go to school with a History major, and fly at a local flight school. Doing that is perfectly lagit. You could also go to a university that specializes in Aviation Science/Management/meteorology. They have their own flight departments, so your regualar academics are combined with ground school and flying, naturally.

Anything else you would like to know, don't hesitate to ask.

rickair7777

Boy, where to even start...


First off, let me appluad you for seeking real-world experiences prior to embarking on a teaching career. My best HS teachers all had such experience (cop, businessman, green beret in 'nam, navy pilot, chemist, athlete). They had perspective, and always focused on mastering the fundamentals and discipline because they understood why it mattered down the road. This was extremely fortunate for me; I attended one of the most competetive universities in the country, and my small-town HS education was well suited to the task thanks to my teachers. My son's teachers don't have any understanding of the real-world, but they sure think they do...the are more concerned with making non-performers feel good about themselves and advancing their political agenda than the 3R's.

if you're interested in aviation, go ahead and and get a private pilot's license. It's a lot of fun and will give you more insight into a possible pilot job or career.

Here's the typical path for a career pilot. The higher-end (major airline level) is extremely competeive to get into to, and would require years of effort. The lower-level jobs are relatively attainable if you have the aptitude. These jobs would be well suited as a temporary career to gain insight into life. Note: the entry level jobs are considered to be part of the dues-paying process to attain a major-airline job; as such they pay less than you might think and have plenty of associated hardship, kind of like an internship.

Phase 1: Training
Get your Private ($5-8K). You can do this at any local airport, part-time at your own convenience. Then evaluate

If you want to continue, get these ratings: instrument, commercial, multi-engine, flight instructor (single-engine, multi-engine, & instrument). This will cost anywhere from $25K - $100K+. There are many different school options, including full-time schools (6-8 months) or part time training at your local airport (2-3 years). The part time option could work well with college, and some schools have a built-in program.

You now have about 250+ total flight time (TT), and 20+ hours multi-engine time (ME)

Phase II: CFI (certified flight instructor)

Now get a job as a CFI (you will also probably be working as a CFII, instrument instructor). These jobs are easy to find and pay anywhere from $10K- $40K year, typically probably about $25K. Full time instructors work long hours and weekends. You will be teaching in single-engine airplanes at first.

As you approach 800-900 hours TT (1+ year), you will need to find an MEI (multi-engine instructor) job. This may be at your current school, or you may need to go somewhere else. Pay is about the same. You will do this job until you have 1200+ TT / 200+ MEI (another 6 months).

Phase III: Night Cargo. You now take a job flying small beat-up single-engine aircraft on night cargo runs. You will work usually M-Th, and fly all night. Pay is low ($18-25K), conditions are crappy, and you are probably based in the middle of nowhere. You will fly single-pilot at night, in bad weather, in potentially hazardous weather conditions. You will eventually move up to medium sized multi-engine aircraft. After 6 months - 2 years with 2000+ TT and 800+ ME you're ready to move on again...

Phase IV: Regional (commuter) Airline: Now you are an airline pilot...you might be flying small turbo-prop aircraft, or small/medium regional jets as a First Officer (FO). Starting pay is $18-22K, but improves to mid 30's in a year or so. After 2-6 years (depending on the company) you upgrade to captain (CA), and now make $55-80K (eventually you can make $100K if you stick around). After 2+ years as a CA you have a 1000+ hours as jet airliner CA (turbine pilot in command, PIC) and can apply to major airlines. It also possible to stay at a regional for your entire career, if you work for a decent company.

Phase V: The Majors (Note: This includes ALL of the big cargo operators (UPS, FEDEX, DHL, etc). Big cargo is run under the same rules and is very similar to passenger airlines. It also pays better. )
Majors are VERY competetive to get into, in addition to meeting the flight experience requirements, you will need to stand our from the crowd in some way: Know somebody, military background, brand-name college, advanced education, life experience, leadership, athletics, etc. Pay starts at $25-50K and goes up pretty quickly. $100k in a few years, and after you upgrade to CA you can make $200K+ at the best companies (used to be $300+ pre-9/11 )


Shortcuts:

1) If you can qualify for military flight training, you can bypass phase I-IV, get paid well, get your training free, and get a major airline job after 9 years of servicve. This is by far the best route if you can get it...

2) You can also skip Night Cargo and go right to a regional airline from CFI if you're lucky.

3) Pay-for-training (PFT). Some schools offer "fast-track" programs where they provide all of your training plus jet airliner training. You then MIGHT get hired at a regional with very low flight time (300-700 TT). This is not considered a good thing by professional pilots, and is not recommended. Plus it will cost $80K or more.

For your puposes you could go as far as CFI, Night Cargo, or Regional FO, then drop out to go teach. The neat thing is that you can still work as a part-time CFI (which is fun) or get a part-time contract pilot job to fly some private/corporate jets on occasion. The only downside to doing all this and then dropping out is the training expense.

Major in something that you will enjoy and that will allow you to work in a field that can pay the bills. A four year degree is pretty much required at the regional level and above, but they DO NOT CARE what your major was. AVOID aviation "degrees" unless it is an accredited engineering program.

You can raise a family on regional CA pay. The airline industry (especially the pilots) have taken some pretty big hits since 9/11. If you make it to a major airline, it beats working for a living. If you really enjoy flying and can tolerate being away from home half the time it should still be a good career. But you will need to do some flying to decide that for yourself.

Do a LOT of research on the internet before you commit to anything. Also be wary of the "glossy brochure" big-name flight $chool$. The bigger the brochure, the bigger the lies.

Good Luck

BusinessAsUsual

Reading some of the other stickied threads made me think that I should go the military route, but there is one slight catch. I dont have perfect vision. right now Im just over the legal limit to drive, at -1.75, and being 18 I cant have lasik for another 7 years. The military requires perfect vision and a mechanical engineering degree for their pilots, dont they?

Im really wondering how hard it is to go the civiliian route, I do have strong monetary backing, I wont have to worry about College tuition, so if I manage to land a decent job I can direct most of the disposable income towards flight school.

Ive also always enjoyed teaching, would becoming an instructor be something I should look into? Thats one of the easiest ways to get your hours, right?

rickair7777

UK/European Licensing is far more difficult than FAA (United States) licensing, but there is a good reason for that. The Euro's are likely to end up in a 767 shortly after training with less than 500 hours

In the US, anyone who wants to work at a major airline will need to work his way up the ladder and acquire years of experience. That's the way it is done here. Assuming BussinessAs Usual is an American, he will need FAA licenses only. European licenses only help you if you are a EU citizen! Otherwise they are a total waste of money.

I'm not even sure why you posted that comment, unless you were trying to make yourself feel superior to someone?

And BTW I'll bet my military training was a a whole lot better than your Euro flight training...did your frozen ATPL involve supersonic night/IMC flight at 200' AGL (that's 60 m) in mountainous terrain?

rickair7777

LASIK is disqualifying for military service. PRK is accepted; my cousin did this at age 21 or 22 and got into USMC flying.

Military requirements are varied as far as your background. You don't need an engineering degree in the USAF, AF reserves/Air National Guard, but it sure helps for Navy/USMC.

CFI is generally the best way to go for a civilian.

The ANG is very well-kept secret because you can adavnce your airline career while getting the military experience in parallel. Go the civilian route, get a regional airline job (you'll be old enough that your vision is stable) then join the guard...your airline seniority will continue to accrue while you do the 2 years of guard training. Best of both worlds.

BusinessAsUsual

The teaching part of my live wouldnt be for a long while I would assume. Most teachers Ive had (Males anyway) that were under about 35 just didnt seem to be there for the students as well. And those directly out of high school get upset with the system and it tends to affect their abilities. I wasnt planning on teaching until around 40-45, so starting now I would still be able to work my way through the system pretty well right?

rickair7777

You could easily be a captain at a major airline by age 45 (Dream Job!). At that time with 15 days off a month, a good schedule, $200K/year, and international travel benefits you would find it hard to go back to the real world, especially at starting teacher's pay. At that point you would maybe want to substitute teach on your days off until retirement (maybe early at 55) and then teach.

If you want to bail on the flying business, do it at the CFI or regional FO level before you have spent too many years of your life paying dues....

BusinessAsUsual

What you just said actually sounds perfect. The money alone is great, I want to be able to provide for my kids, the same way my mom is providing for me, and 200k a year is more than her. Plus, 55 is still early as far as Im concerned.

So Im assuming flying is, or rather can be, as rewarding as it appears. Just, with the idea of working at a desk for 50 years, and the idea of becoming a pilot, its started to factor more into my plans lately.