IFR: "to", "for", "do", etc?
09-16-2008, 09:21 PM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Cessna 150 Left seat
Posts: 430
IFR: "to", "for", "do", etc?
Hi People!
In IFR getting vectored.
If ATC states "turn right heading 260 to intecept Victor 324."
Are you suppose to intecept V324 once needle comes alive? or is this just advsing you that you should EXPECT to intercept V324 so unless further advised, one must maintain 260?
I ask above question for following reasons. As you might realize, one word can change what Pilot should do in IFR.
If ATC states " turn right heading 260. This is vector for your final approach course or vector for V324." One must not intercept the airway until additional clearence is given such as "intercept LOC or Cleared for the LOC approach or intercept V324". This is my understanding.
If ATC states "turn right heading 260, intercept V324." To me, this is clearence to intercept the Victor airway once the needle comes alive.
So again going back to the first question. Is "TO" giving us information as what to expect, or is it a clearence to intercept????
Technically speaking the english work "to" gives me the same meaning as "for" and therefore, I can't intercept the airway or Final approach course. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Thanks!
In IFR getting vectored.
If ATC states "turn right heading 260 to intecept Victor 324."
Are you suppose to intecept V324 once needle comes alive? or is this just advsing you that you should EXPECT to intercept V324 so unless further advised, one must maintain 260?
I ask above question for following reasons. As you might realize, one word can change what Pilot should do in IFR.
If ATC states " turn right heading 260. This is vector for your final approach course or vector for V324." One must not intercept the airway until additional clearence is given such as "intercept LOC or Cleared for the LOC approach or intercept V324". This is my understanding.
If ATC states "turn right heading 260, intercept V324." To me, this is clearence to intercept the Victor airway once the needle comes alive.
So again going back to the first question. Is "TO" giving us information as what to expect, or is it a clearence to intercept????
Technically speaking the english work "to" gives me the same meaning as "for" and therefore, I can't intercept the airway or Final approach course. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Thanks!
09-16-2008, 10:28 PM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: ATL
Posts: 413
This is telling you to intercept. Otherwise they would say "expect." Fly heading 240 until you receive V324, then follow the airway.
They should not use confusing wordage in issuing clearances, especially in the approach segment. Did you receive a clearance that confused you, such as above?
They should not use confusing wordage in issuing clearances, especially in the approach segment. Did you receive a clearance that confused you, such as above?
09-17-2008, 05:48 AM
#3
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,252
How far to let the needle move? It depends
To be precise, a V airway is 8 NM wide...
But the VOR CDI does not indicate a certain distance, it indicates in degrees. If you are near the VOR, a few degrees is only a small distance...if you are far from the VOR, the same few degrees could translate to many nuatical miles.
If you are near the VOR, better start turning pretty quickly when the needle comes alive.
If you are some distance away, you might want to use that formula to find out how many dots = 4nm. Technically you should not start the turn until you are within the 4NM of the centerline (terrain clearance).
To be precise, a V airway is 8 NM wide...
But the VOR CDI does not indicate a certain distance, it indicates in degrees. If you are near the VOR, a few degrees is only a small distance...if you are far from the VOR, the same few degrees could translate to many nuatical miles.
If you are near the VOR, better start turning pretty quickly when the needle comes alive.
If you are some distance away, you might want to use that formula to find out how many dots = 4nm. Technically you should not start the turn until you are within the 4NM of the centerline (terrain clearance).
09-17-2008, 11:01 AM
#4
Flying Farmer
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Turbo-props' and John Deere's
Posts: 3,160
The word "To" is in conjunction with "intercept," so I think that it is obvious. So if you don't heard the words "Intercept," "cleared," or "climb/descend/cross" then it isn't a clearance, just a heads-up.
09-18-2008, 09:20 AM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: JS32 FO
Posts: 848
The approach procedures exist to avoid congestion on frequency and keep traffic moving. Since you were cleared for the approach, you were also cleared to follow the missed approach, unless ATC alters the missed. If this were the case, you would hear it in your clearance. Otherwise, follow the missed procedure until you establish contact with ATC and receive further instructions.
