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Otto123 10-03-2008 06:36 AM

CFI Training
 
I have just finished my CSEL and am looking to jump right in to my CFI training.

I was wondering what some of the ideas are as to how to go about the CFI(I), MEI ratings from your experience. I know there are places like ATP, American Flyers, etc. out there that offer it all, but they seem expensive and kind of like cattle hearders. Does anyone have any advice?

And in this economy, is it feasible to only have a CFI ticket if the money tends to fade fast during the training? That brings up another question, what is the typical time frame and cost to finish the CFI? The CFII?

Thank you.

de727ups 10-03-2008 07:01 AM

I've always recommended ATP for the CFI since they know how to get people through. If you can find a local FBO and CFI that does a fair amount of CFI's, then maybe, but initial CFI rides have a high failure rate and the last thing you want is to be the guy walking in unprepared. Go someplace that does a lot of CFI's.

If you can get a job without the II or MEI and don't want to spend the extra money right now, you can always save that for later. It's no big deal.

Otto123 10-03-2008 07:02 AM

All good points. Thank you.

250 or point 65 10-03-2008 08:52 AM

The neat thing about studying to become a CFI is that:

1) It should be cheap
2) Making it cheap makes you a better instructor, because you do the work yourself!

If you do it at a local FBO, keep in mind that this is YOUR rating, no other person is getting you through this because YOU are the one who is going to be instructing. So this is what you do to become a good instructor on the cheap.
  1. Buy the PTS for instructors
  2. Make a plan that includes the following items and anything else in the PTS required.
  3. Find a CFI who is able to give you this instruction and run YOUR plan past them.
  4. Read and tab your FOI...then take the test
  5. Read and tab your FAR/AIM
  6. Read and tab the airplane flying handbook
  7. Create a big binder full of necessary lesson plans and other materials that will be important for you to reference both on your ride and while you instruct.
  8. Teach your sister what a cold front is, then teach your mom the four forces, then teach PilotPip's mom the four forces!:)
  9. Then show your instructor that you can teach.
  10. And finally, while doing all this, fly a couple times with your instructor and learn how to talk and fly (helps to talk yourself through a route or technique while youre driving too)
If you do all this and use your instructor as a guide...not a crutch, you will be a fantastic CFI who did it on the cheap...not a quick CFI who overpaid for training.

Remember, the CFI is only a small part flying, but a BIG part teaching. People don't fail their ride because they can't fly, they fail because they can't teach.


(ps, about the II and MEI, I would use aviation money to fund those...get paid by being an instructor to get your additional ratings. Plus, most places give you a discount on Sims and aircraft as an employee)

Krafty1 10-03-2008 11:24 AM

Basically whats already been stated as far as the materials go however I would recommend an FBO that offers an accelerated program with experience training CFIs. I went from start of class to Checkride in about 3 weeks. No matter what your route it is entirely on your shoulders when you are ready for the checkride. I was averaging about 4 hours/night studying during those three weeks mixed in with some classwork and flights during the day. Bottomline is there is no sense overpaying for this checkride that can be done relatively cheap but if you have to pay extra for quality training than do so. Its a very tough ride but you will come prepared and hopefully feel as prepared as you've ever been.

As far as the CFI market right now. I've applied throughout the midwest with just my CFI ticket and had one interview. The best I can hope for from that is to be hired into a hiring pool and as a prereq for the pool I have to have taken the CFI-I written. I've since taken the FII written and should have a checkride for my II in a couple of weeks so its entirely possible you may have to pay for your II if you plan on being competive in the market.

choxy 10-03-2008 12:44 PM

I agree with all of the above, but make sure YOU work. Your instructor knows what it takes to be a cfi, and they sure as h--- won't sign a logbook just to make you happy. I know. I took a long time to get my cfi, although it should have not taken so long, but I ran out of the money to do any of the training, but I did independent study. When I had the $ to meet with my instructor, we didnt have to work hard on the knowledge because it was already there and apparent. Remember, when I worked as a cfi at Parks a few people failed their cfi initial rides because they did not have all their endorsements, etc. and this is stuff that you as a candidate need to know bar none. Just be ice cold man and know stuff and how to transfer the knowledge.

Remember this, you have to prove everything as a cfi candidate and as a cfi, so already realize the burden of proof is yours.

Otto123 10-06-2008 07:00 PM

These are all great points and advice, thank you. I have been told a number of times that I should wait for any advanced instructor ticket so that the discounts might apply to the training by the FBO I hire in with. As I say that, it has always been on the back of my mind about the competitive nature of the industry now with all the furlow's and low hiring rates. I ask those of you that are already in the industry,...do you see those low time pilot's (new hire's) that have been flying the commuters, etc. filtering back into the teaching ranks due to the economy? I am wondering too if there are even higher time commercial pilots who don't have the job security...are they either renewing their instructing tickets or getting them just to stay flying?

With regards to the onus being on me in becoming the best CFI that I can be, I understand that the work is mine. A question that I have is do any of you have a recommendation of a syllabus that I could use as a template to formulate my own lesson plan? And if I may ask, what does the lesson plan(s) typically include? Is it acceptable to break down each ticket and create a separate plan for each? I am not really sure I am interested in doing an accelerated program (no offense Krafty1) simply because I think it would be difficult for me to understand everything that I would need to teach someone with little or no experience. With that said, 250 and Choxy, I ask the both of you, what should I expect out of a CFI in reviewing my lesson plans along with the flying portion? I tend to look at it as they are now working for me instead of the other way around when they were teaching me.

I apologize for the response being so long, but things are confusing where I am with accelerated schools, individual broker instructors, etc. telling me "this" is where I should be to do my CFI ticket. Obviously like everyone else out there, I am not interested in frivously spending money in acquiring any rating, etc. Things are tight and I want to get the most out of it for my money.

Thanks in advance for all your help.

250 or point 65 10-07-2008 06:45 AM

Very good questions! Lemme give you the best I got.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otto123 (Post 474617)
These are all great points and advice, thank you. I have been told a number of times that I should wait for any advanced instructor ticket so that the discounts might apply to the training by the FBO I hire in with. As I say that, it has always been on the back of my mind about the competitive nature of the industry now with all the furlow's and low hiring rates. I ask those of you that are already in the industry,...do you see those low time pilot's (new hire's) that have been flying the commuters, etc. I don't think too many of them are going back to instructing...some of them feel entitled to the regional job and are too good for instructing, and many of them didn't even have their CFI's in the first place. filtering back into the teaching ranks due to the economy? I am wondering too if there are even higher time commercial pilots who don't have the job security...are they either renewing their instructing tickets or getting them just to stay flying?

With regards to the onus being on me in becoming the best CFI that I can be, I understand that the work is mine. I'm sorry, I wasn't getting on you, I just want you to know that an accellerated program puts the stress on the CFI, not the candidate. To do it right (and cheap) you'll have to put the stress on yourself...which it looks like you are doing.K A question that I have is do any of you have a recommendation of a syllabus that I could use as a template to formulate my own lesson plan? Keep in mind that there is a huge difference between a lesson plan and a syllabus. Most places that you instruct at will have some sort of syllabus to keep you on track. The ones that don't expect you to evaluate each student and tailor the "syllabus" to them. And if I may ask, what does the lesson plan(s) typically include? You will find this spelled out very clearly in the FOI. PM me if you would like a sample of the ones I made. My style is not the end all be all, but it may be a good start for you finding what will work for you. Is it acceptable to break down each ticket and create a separate plan for each? YES! However, remember, you really need to create lesson plans for topics, not syllabi for each ticket. I am not really sure I am interested in doing an accelerated program (no offense Krafty1) simply because I think it would be difficult for me to understand everything that I would need to teach someone with little or no experience. With that said, 250 and Choxy, I ask the both of you, what should I expect out of a CFI in reviewing my lesson plans along with the flying portion? This is kinda how you have to think about it. If you came to me and told me you were prepared for the test, I would say great, now teach me XXXXX, CCCCC, and DDDDD...and you need to have lesson plans to teach me these things. (not that if I were your CFI, i would not help you until the end, I would be there to guide you all the way.) If i remember correctly, most, but not all of these things are listed in the PTS. The flying portion is probably the easiest ride you will take in terms of actually flying the plane. This is because if you screw up, you use it as a learning experience and EXPLAIN what you did wrong (now if you can't perform any maneuver, thats different). I actually announced that I was going to mess up on purpose to show what happens when a typical error happens in a maneuver. However, the examiner is evaluating your ability to teach! So you better be not only talking, but saying the right things! I tend to look at it as they are now working for me instead of the other way around when they were teaching me.

I apologize for the response being so long, but things are confusing where I am with accelerated schools, individual broker instructors, etc. telling me "this" is where I should be to do my CFI ticket. Obviously like everyone else out there, I am not interested in frivously spending money in acquiring any rating, etc. Things are tight and I want to get the most out of it for my money.

Thanks in advance for all your help.


Ja189 10-09-2008 01:37 PM

"cattle hearders"

Who cares how you get it as long as you are 1) SAFE, 2) good at it, 3) and get return on investment!

250 or point 65 10-09-2008 06:57 PM

who are you?


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