Is airline flying really for you???
 

Airline flying is not for me

(I wrote this rant "stream of consciousness" style. Sorry for being somewhat incoherent.)


Thank you for posting about your past experiences in the aviation industry EVERYONE, especially Mr. Skyhigh. I truly appreciate what you’re doing, and I’ll tell you how you and others on this board and on PPRUNE.org, who tell of the realities of this career path, of both good and bad, have helped me realize this isn’t for me.

I always thought this job was for me. That since it was my passion it would mean I would never get bored at work. Finishing high school, I was really close to cashing out the equivalent of 100k for an “Aviation College” in my home country. That’s about the time when I started reading on the forums of pprune.org. I started to find out about the realities of being an airline pilot, however I was positive and was very much still in “love”. All the negativities and people saying the hardships one has to go through only fueled my own determination. “Hah, they aren’t determined enough” I thought, “I won’t end up like them, I know what it takes and will make it no matter what. I’ve loved aircraft since I’ve been a little kid, heck I was on an airliner a week after I was born. If this isn’t for me, nothing is.”

Knowing the unstable nature of the industry I chose to go to uni and study aeronautical engineering. (This is where I’m at now). I have spent the last year and a half daydreaming about being on the flight deck running check lists and flying around the world in a boeing. I even laid out a grand plan where I figured out the costs of each of the ratings and how I would progress to my first airline job. I had the bug.

I was fully aware of the many hardships that go along with an airline career, yet i was 110% sure I wanted to go for it. It’s going to be worth it when I get to the RHS of a Boeing I thought. All this time I’m completely sure I would enjoy flying an airliner. The question is, how do I know if I really will enjoy flying an airliner when I haven’t done it? Havin been in a friend’s dad’s Cessna, I thought I confirmed that airline flying was definitely for me. No, the only thing I had confirmed was that flying in a Cessna was really awesome. As for the airline flying, I could only imagine the job in my head. It was good dreaming about it. The reality as I found out is so different, and I’m referring to the airline flying itself, not about the awful pay/benefits that comes with the some of the jobs.

I found out what it’s really like to work on the flight deck after watching cockpit videos. I was bored out of my mind watching them. Sure the view was great at times, but most of the work seemed so boring to me, and they do this many hours each day for several days at a time! After 1 hour I was bored to death. No wonder I’m reading about BA captains who can’t wait to retire and who say “airlines are not the be all end all”. I used to be baffled by this. And thinking about it, although I’m always excited to get to the airport and see planes, love air shows, enjoy the take-off part, but other than that I’m always kinda bored during a flight. It was the same boredom when watching these videos.

The interesting thing is that the first time I watched the video I was trying to deny that I was bored by it. It was exciting to watch the first 20 minutes, but then I was just forcing myself to watch. After watching several other videos, I’ve started to come to terms with the truth. I find airline flying boring.
The same thing happens when I play flight sim. I find flying the Cessna was fun and free, learning and “flying” the 737 was boring (all those damned procedures, fms and stuff, I WANNA FLY DAMMIT and be free).

It was almost painful to admit this, but now I have, especially when the other things about the job are included. But the fun and excitement factor of airline flying was the main thing that was keeping the fire burning in me, but now I know (for me at least) that airline flying is downright boring. The freedom and fun of flying exists in my opinion in GA, not in airline flying. Watch cockpit videos and see if that type of flying is “free” and exciting, do you see yourself doing that type of flying the rest of your life? For me, not worth the hardships, not worth the money that has to be spent on training, not worth a big chunk of my life. I can’t believe that the end result of all the sacrifice of wannabees is the kind of flying I’m seeing in those cockpit videos. Again, no wonder all pilots say the best flying they did was during training and before getting into that boeing/airbus.

Why am I ranting about this you say? I know that many others dreaming about being a pilot must think that the job, the flying itself, must be awesome, just like a hobby, never boring, even though the benefits and pay are bad and you get shift work. They will do it for the flying. Just make sure you know what that type of flying is like before getting into it. I too thought flying a 747 must be so interesting and keep me happy if I ever got to fly one. Nope, whenever I feel the airline flying bug, I just watch these cockpit videos and get turned off straight away. And to think I was ready to sacrifice so much for this…..

RANT OVER.

I think to really enjoy the job, you need to enjoy operating an airliner, try that in FLIGHTSIM (download those realism add-ons for 737 etc) and also see if you enjoy watching cockpit videos. If you truly love that kind of flying, go for it. Don’t base your decision on how you imagine how flying an airliner will be.

Thank you FLIGHTSIM, thank you COCKPIT VIDEOS and last but not least thank you PPRUNE.org and APC forums. You let me see what the job is really like. I don’t like it, I like general aviation, not airline flying (although photos are pretty and I’m still amazed at the machines, just not the flying part).

If you got annoyed by my post, which you prolly did, i'm sorry i didn't make it shorter and more to the point. It was a rant after all. One and a half years worth of it.

"It was a rant after all. One and a half years worth of it."

Do you feel better now...hehe.

My only question would be why all the pent up frustration in the first place? Did somebody promise you something? Have you been mislead?

Flying for the airlines is hardly for everybody. You are sort of married to the job (though, I'd say most jobs are probably like that). It has it's ups and downs. Don't forget that the airlines aren't the only game in town. If one can't stand the lifestyle, perhaps corporate, fracs, 135, Alaska, or military are other alternatives. To each his own.

I found out what it’s really like to work on the flight deck after watching cockpit videos. I was bored out of my mind watching them. Sure the view was great at times, but most of the work seemed so boring to me, and they do this many hours each day for several days at a time! After 1 hour I was bored to death. No wonder I’m reading about BA captains who can’t wait to retire and who say “airlines are not the be all end all”. I used to be baffled by this. And thinking about it, although I’m always excited to get to the airport and see planes, love air shows, enjoy the take-off part, but other than that I’m always kinda bored during a flight. It was the same boredom when watching these videos.
dd89


Interesting first post. It just may be possible that you didn't really experience being an airline pilot by watching a few videos any more than you would experience combat by watching Black Hawk Down.
It isn't for everyone, it isn't exciting most of the time and it is a very difficult path-much like aeronautical engineering. Stick with the engineering, it will be rewarding and you can always change your mind after you get a degree. If you want some real aerial excitement go fly fighters-you may get more than a snoot full and decide something a little more sedate will allow a longer life.

Flightsim has about as much to do with real flying as a video game has to do with real life, the two don't have very much in common, and learning the monkey motions doesn't make you an aviator.

If there is any excitement going on in my aircraft, somebody or something has screwed up. Think of it as a sense of quiet professional accomplishment, much like designing a better component for an aircraft.

It ain't the same
 

No, you found out what it's like to watch cockpit videos. That would bore me too. I think you made the right decision for the wrong reason.

No.....from what I understand...that type of flying is work. It happens to combine some's people passion but I doubt many would say that it is as much FUN as renting a Cessna and crusing up the beach on a beautiful summer's day. I miss what I call *recreational* flying and hope to get back into it someday; that beach or those mountains are calling my name!

Yes.

I think TG has is right.....you made the decision early and that is good; but if you think that you are seeing the REAL truth by flying FLIGHTSIM and watching cockpit videos then you only have an incredibly small percentage of the whole picture.

USMCFLYR

I'd rather be bored at FL250 looking out the window than bored in a cubicle looking at a computer screen...just my opinion.

Airline flying isn't very exciting, but that's also why it's the safest way to travel.

Jungle has it spot on ,in that you do not want EXCITEMENT during a flight .
Sure at times its boring but then again what job does not get somewhat boring after awhile?

I'm with propdriver. Yeah an airliner can be viewed as a cubicle but I would rather have my cubicle going .85 at FL320 to lord only knows where. Sounds a lot more exciting than casual fridays.

wow you didn't delete this. pprune got it removed within half an hour!

I'm glad i wrote here, I'm glad you guys corrected my flawed perspective of the whole thing. That is important so i don't make the right decision for the wrong reason.

I just wanted to know how it really is like, not motivate myself with some romantic image of how it's like and then get all disappointed when/if I get there. I thought these videos would show that, but obviously, you have to be the pilot flying to really experience that. Being an observer doesn't put you at the controls, monitor the systems and make the decisions

Cubicles make me ill, i've visited some companies and seen it. When I'm done with my degree I'm planning on doing some traveling work, then some "cubicle-type" work
and see how I do. I have plenty of time considering the aviation path.

you really do have to be passionate about aviation for it to be worthwhile i guess, it must be a huge part of one's life. I'm trying to figure out if that is the case with me. However, it's difficult to differentiate the blind infatuation that most wannabees have for aviation from true passion that i see in the likes of 727up (read your profile on jetcareers).



SO, a question:

How would you guys define your passion for aviation?


As for me,

I'll concentrate on what i'm supposed to do right now, grow up some and try to figure out what i want from life, make my decision from there. My infatuation with this career is making it hard to concentrate on what i'm supposed to be doing right now, prepping for the upcoming exams!

Airline flying isn't for me, but I am a professional aviator with 4000+ hours. I've worked 1000hrs as a flight instructor, 2000hrs as a 135 freight/pax pilot, and now I've worked 1.5 yrs with a Aircraft sales dealer/Mx and absolutely love it. I'm home 99% of the time, sometimes have long days, but most aren't that demanding. I flew 600hrs last year(which is shock for me, been the lowest amount since I've graduated college), and get to fly a variety of aircraft all the time.

Being a pilot isn't just being an airline guy. Don't let what is happening with that industry reflect what's happening in general. Not to take away from the airlines, because there are some pretty sweet gigs at the airlines too, it just takes timing, patience, and luck to find that position, as with any flying job.

So if it is truly a dream and passion, keep your options open, because you never know where you'll end up.

"How would you guys define your passion for aviation?"

It's the only thing I ever wanted to do and the only thing I've ever done.

If that is the benchmark Mr 727ups, then i cannot measure up and i'm starting to believe you really do have to have that kind of passion to really enjoy the career.

I have to be honest about this, flying is not the only thing i've dreamed of since a little kid. It was only since high school that the infatuation got me. I was so bored of school, and was trying to figure out what i was going to for the rest of my life. Pilots to me at that time represented a profession that was almost impossible to achieve, only the fittest and smartest could become pilots, they're superhumans. After finding out that it was perfectly feasible (albeit with very costly) i was estatic of course. My god, i can actually become an airline pilot (knowing nothing about actual flying). From then on i was obsessed about aviation.

This certainly can't be considered real passion can it? I was in love with the image i had in my head, the glamour of being a pilot. The flying part i knew nothing about, but i just assumed it must be the really cool to be in command of such an impressive machine. Now I realize it was just an infatuation, not real passion.

I always wanted to fly. I took a lesson when I was 15 and was hooked. I soloed on my 16th birthday and never looked back. 13,000 hours later, I still love going to work. Yes, I have a life: wife & two kids, hobbies, etc. I'm just fortunate enough to love what I do. :)

Those videos are really boring, even Flightsim is kinda boring

I kinda followed the same path as you... did AeroEngineering at ERAU... I remember sitting in DifEQ thinking that had to be the most boring place in the world. Aerospace Engineering is not for everyone.... if I never see another math equation again I will be happy...

If you end up flying for a job you will probably be happier than engineering something through enormous dif. equations and such... just my experience...there is nothing like looking at the earth from different places seeing everything.. it is really something!

If you get bored with fixed wings try helicopters... I did and got hooked...

That is DE727UPS's version of the passion - it is not everyone's. It was the same for me though - so different people have different benchmarks so there is no measuring up or not.

This is a good thing. It means that you have other options and other things in life that might give you the same level of joy that flying gives others.

This does seem to be the truth in your case. I encourage you to find out more and maybe take an introductory flight to see what you think of the real thing.

It is! :D

USMCFLYR

To be able to make it as an airline pilot you need to have the aptitude to sit 2 feet from a complete stranger for several hours a day and several days at a time and be able to work with, relate to, and shoot the breeze with this person no matter who he or she is.

Not to thread drift here, but if you haven't had a position somewhere as an aerospace engineer you don't have a clue how different the real experience is from the school experience. It's far easier and simpler than they will tell you in AE school.

Perhaps 85% of real aerospace engineering work is so simple a good high school student could do it. College is academically challenging and the equations fly faster than a jet sometimes, but routine engineering is the other way around. It is good to know how the math works, but at the design and performance evaluation level you can get by with some calculus, trig, a little bit of linear algebra and a 5 dollar calculator.

That doesn't mean that routine engineering work isn't boring at times. But if you don't like finding eigenvalues or working flight dynamics equations is no reason to avoid a job in this occupation. There is an immense amount of CAD modeling. They usually do not teach CAD in college and I had to pick up Catia V5 in my spare time when I was a student.

The summer internships were enough to see what day to day life was. My uncle also works as an engineer for a company that handles a lot government military projects and he can't wait to get out of it either.

There is complex math in normal AE work. Granted most math is given and the formulas are almost always the same whatever project it is. A lot of it (from my short experience in the work side) would be just your understanding of physics, chemistry, fluids, thermo, etc applied to whatever you are doing.

I'm just saying that compared to flying, engineering is boring in my opinion.. the only reason I did the degree was to get better handle how an airplane flies.... most of which you can read in a few good books (some books are just wrong in descriptions)...whatever...just rather be flying.

What you are talking about would be positions responsible for advanced design and analysis. Most engineers make CAD models if not doing something even simpler. Companies hire us because we are smart and easily trained not because they need anything very brilliant from us. I haven't owned a programmable calculator or worked any tedious hand calculations since I left engineering school. The job is mostly bureaucratic grunt work. I think we agree on that part.

interesting stuff!
 

Hi cubdriver and ryan. It's great to see that there are engineers about on this site!

I hear the same stuff from aero engineers who've visited our school. Quite a bit of CAD (which i find quite enjoyable), and the last time the guy had done integration or derivation was during engineering school. Basically a lot of what they now do, they receive training for at work.

Not all engineering jobs are office jobs of course. Aker Solutions came to our school a few weeks back. I talked some of the "service engineers" who have traveling jobs where they are one month at work and have one month off doing

- maintenance of offshore drilling equipment.
- installation of such equipment
- instruction on how to operate the equipment

They are often on the rigs doing said stuff, and it's not just in the north sea either. One has worked in China, Korea, Singapore etc wherever such machinery is being used. Many even settle down in these countries for a while and then bid for another when they wish. Quite flexible he says when you get some seniority (higher positions like being an instructor).

There are many companies where you can find traveling jobs (not just for engineers either) but it takes its toll of course, and the guy told me most people retire from such work when they hit the late twenties and get the office jobs.

Point is, engineering jobs aren't all office jobs (like i thought before).

I really think if you are not passionate about flying, you should not do it as a career. Really. It requires sacrifices, it will take you high, low, beat you up, and give you the greatest joys. Its incredibly irregular. You have to love it to stay committed.

Its painful to have to put flying to the side because of the current economy, or just take large steps backward just to fly. And if you haven't had to do something else, you have never been furloughed, never had to work hard to get a flight job, or had lots of money to spend while waiting to fly. Its a bad career, but damn if I don't love the job.

i know i couldn't do anything but fly. unfortunately i took a job with a regional i knew that i might not like. i blame myself for getting into this position b/c i cannot stand my job right now. for me at this point sitting reserve and flying 15 hours a month is killing me. i used to fly 8 hrs a day 5-6 days a week and now i sit on a couch 24 days a month...i'm more frustrated than i thought i could ever be but every once in awhile i get to do a 2 leg deadhead to fly 40 minutes and it is worth it...it sucks though to have to spend so much time away from the Mrs. and family and friends...it sometimes sad that in order do what we're meant to do we have to sacrefice so much...

"How would you guys define your passion for aviation?"

Airline flying isn't for everyone, I'm not sure it's for me! One thing I am sure of is I couldn't do anything but fly, but 121 isn't the only thing out there. Honestly I think a dream job would be flying regionally in someones BE200. I'm a big fan of flying 135 (cargo/pax) right now, and I'll keep doing so until I find something I am sure of. Don't let the negativity of so many of the posts get you down, it's important to remember that one of the major qualifications for a professional pilot is being able to complain about everything. And complain we do, and often. For that I appologize, because I'm just as guilty as anyone! What I'm trying to say is don't base everything on what you read. Go fly! Then decide if it's for you!

"How would you guys define your passion for aviation?"

I've heard it said more than once that aviation is a jealous mistress, but man is she worth it. If you have the drive to really stick with it. You'll get to see things out that front window that you never ever would if you were stuck behind a desk somewhere. I had an office job before I started flying and there's no way that I could go back. It hasn't been the easiest career, I've moved all over the country for work and was flying 135 until the economy downturn and now I'm instructing again. If you can keep the spirit that you're flying because you love flying then the rocky spots aren't so bad. At least in my opinion...

I'm not a professional pilot... But here is my take. You owe it to yourself to try. And it is possible to do so responsibly.
Finish your Degree... Get a job... Then get your PPL. if you enjoyed that, then get your IFR... If you enjoyed that Commercial, Multi, etc...

if you call it quits after PVT, you only spent 8 grand... If it's the only thing you can think about, and you like to travel, and hate 9 to 5... well then you definitely should try it out. Don't let people on the forums make decisions for you. Most of the nay-sayers never worked in an office before... Most of them got a bad stroke of luck. Doesn't happen to everyone. For every 85 guys on furlough, there are 1000's that are happy and love their life. Most of the forum people will be those on furlough. (Flame Shields Up)

Touche, I completely agree. It can be tough or an easy life and has its ups and downs like anything else. If you can afford to do it gradually, on your spare time, then why not. With the constant lowering price of aircraft and the drastically increasing performance likely in the next 10 years in GA (look at glasairs doing 320 TAS at 30,000 feet!!!) IMO it is likely that a descent aircraft will be purchasable for 100,000-150,000 new.

Remember, some day they will have to compete with the car world to bring people to aviation, I can't wait!

Why do people bother with PPRuNE? Going there for advice is about the same as getting relationship advice from a bathroom stall. Its trash, inaccurate advice and gossip.

Cockpit videos will show you nothing, BTW. Sure, crew members are touching switches, but do you know what and why they do it? You have no idea behind the purpose of anything going on. On top of that, you aren't the one in the position making judgment calls nor can you accurately see things (out the front) nor the displays or hear all the little sounds the crew would.

If your idea of professional flying (whatever it is to you) is so easily swayed by some videos purchased online or whatever you see on youtube, I think you need to question how you form your decisions.

Watching COPS does not show you the other aspects of being a police officer. Paperwork, court appearances, not getting the bad guy, death, etc.

A lot of good points being made here. As a Chief instructor at of fairly new 141 school, I usually ask all the students what they want to do for their flying job. Some say corporate, airlines, ag, or whatever. I try to let them know that you can't have blinders on. My career has taken some interesting twists and I'm sure will continue to do so. I was furloughed just about a year ago from my first jet job, but I had retained my position as Chief Inst. which saved my bacon, so I do that, some instruction and Charter. Flying is the ONLY thing for me. What I tell them is, you can be working towards something, but you never know what is going to happen, who you are going to meet along the way. They may offer you a job.

My mentor (RIP) told me that your life can change in 30 seconds...he began his career over France in an A-26 and flew for 64 years. Military, corporate, charter, instructor, freight. My point is, you don't know what is going to happen. Their are a lot of cool flying jobs out there.


POP QUIZ: What is the BEST airplane?


The one that is paying your bills!!!

That pretty much says it all.

For myself, I LOVE flying and I've done a lot of different things in my life. It is what I'm best at as well.

Watching some video doesn't cut it either, in making a decision about anything.


Papa T

About the boring video thing...

Take my job for example...

I am an IT Analyst for a commercial real estate company... Can you imagine watching me answer phone calls in my cubicle, make changes to the network on my computer, fix peoples issues over RDP, etc from a video? Talk about boring. But as papatango269 and others have said, the video doesn't tell barely ANY of the story. Watching video of a takeoff, and being at the controls during takeoff - 2 completely different things. Same thing with seeing pictures of sunsets from the air... Doesn't even come close to the live image while you are standing on a mountain or looking from the cockpit window. Money ain't everything, neither is a big house, fast car, whatever... Experiences are way better than THINGS. It is nice to have a decent clean place to live, and a reliable nice car.. But I'd rather drive the Honda and love my job than drive a BMW and hate my job... I think in 5 years the airline industry will be very different from the one we know today. Good, or bad, the low pay and fatigue cat is out of the box... so we shall see. But at least you got time to establish yourself in a different job, make some money, maybe earn some ratings... And if they start hiring again (and they will), then you have a head start with less debt...

Before I started flying, I dreamed about the whole airline flying thing, you know flying a 747, the uniform, the glamor. Needless to say, now I realize how difficult it is to get into a 747. How much hard work, time, money, sacrifices, and ups and downs in your life that you will have to experience before you get into a 747? (I am using "747" as a mere example). I have been flying for almost an year, and I am learning something new everyday. Funny thing is that I have stopped dreaming of that 747 now, but I am just mostly looking forward to the next time I hop into that 172, because I know that it is going to take a lot of hard work prior to preparing for my next flight. Because I am so "busy" thinking of the next flight and trying to make it as successful as I possibly can, I really have no time to worry about the 747 dream. My point is, that you need to be focused on the task at hand. For an example, if you are working on your PPL, work on it hard, and make sure you build some good habits to take with you in the future. How can you make such a decision based on cockpit videos or flight sims? Sorry, but it doesn't make any sense to me at all. It is one thing to have a goal in life, but it is not at all productive to think of something so far ahead. I am not sure if you made the right decision here. But if you are strongly sure that airline flying isn't for you, then you might be right. As for me, I love my office job because it pays for me to fly, but definitely not something I would want to do for the rest of my life. Yes, it would take me a heck of lot of time, money, etc. but it is about the romance and hope I make it someday.

DD89 I, like you, cannot stand the thought of flying for an airline. I do, however, love to fly and plan to make a career out of it. There are lots of opportunities out there besides the airlines. As soon as I'm out of college I'm looking into crop dusting with hopes of flying bush planes someday when I've aquired enough hours and ratings (float plane). Its said often enough that one does not want excitement while flying, and for the airlines this is true. You are responsible for other peoples lives. I, for one, am a member of what seems to be a dying breed of pilots that love the excitement and the risk that comes with flying. I love having my skills tested. Look into competition aerobatics. As for jobs crop-dusting and bush flying are both very "seat of the pants" occupations. There are jobs out there that don't entail being a glorified bus driver.

You're just not watching the right videos.
YouTube - People like us - pilots - part 2/3

Correct, there are many other opportunities out there other than airline flying like cargo, skydivers, crop dusting, traffic watch, aerobatics, banner towing and many more. Everyone of us got into this business for different reasons.
Good luck to all.

I've got to agree.....to a point. Although I hope to secure a job flying in the fractional, corporate, or 135 charter world, I still from time to time think about being that F/O who does the walk around visual inspection of his 738, 75, or 76. Given the state of the economy right now, chances are that I probably won't see that part of my career come true. Am I disappointed? Yeah....somewhat :(. But just as others have pointed out.......there's a whole lot of other flying out there.

Besides in addition to becoming a professional pilot, I'm in the pre-discernment process of ordination; first as a Deacon, then eventually a Priest in the Episcopal Church. I have a passion for both.:cool:





atp

Flying for an airline, charter, etc. is a lifestyle much like being a doctor and any other occupation. If you don't enjoy it there isn't much sense in doing it. It has strange hours and long days but then again, what job doesn't.

If you were a sales person and had to cold call on prospects you will get hung-up on more than make the sale.

If you are a doctor, you are dealing with long hours and sometimes dead people. No thank you!

If you are a manager, you deal with office politics and a 9-to-5 schedule.

What I do is interesting to me! I enjoy the process. I enjoy the scenery. I enjoy the people. I enjoy my schedule because when I'm off, I am off.

Sure there are a lot of things I don't particularly like, but hey, you are going find that EVERYWHERE!

I hope you find what you like!

Jeffrey