Flight Safety vs. ATP
 

I'm an aspiring pilot on the verge of a very important as well as expensive decision. I have my decision narrowed down to two flight schools, flight safety and ATP. Both are fairly comparable in price and I've heard positive things about both schools. About me, I'm 24 and have relatively no flight time, aside from flying around in my buddy's piper several years ago. I've loved flying ever since I was little, and can think of no better job than an airline pilot. Time frame from start to finish is important, but so is the quality of instruction. I would really appreciate any info from anyone affiliated with these two schools.

Unless you have unlimited financial resources, make sure your school allows you to focus on the training required for your FAA ratings and doesn't force you to buy extra training like airline ops or jet training. That kind of stuff is not necessary but will cost a great deal.

You can get it all done for $30-35K at your local small airport, so if you are going to pay much more than that, you really need to understand WHY? and there had better be a really good reason (ie guaranteed job as a 747 or space-shuttle commander).

Yeah, but rickair7777, doesn't the same amount of $ (given all things are equal in terms of quality of training) at a facility like ATP or FSA gives me more options? For example, wouldn't being affiliated w/ATP or FSA, as one who is a CFI in a AMEL a/c with 1000TT and 250 multi gives me an edge?

Flight safety is the best of all the major academies.
Costs are competitive, and in may cases, better than DCA, RAA, ATP, and American Flyers.

BIG advantage, you get to do your instrument in a multi. Remember you need 100hrs of multi to get a good airline job offer. If you get your CFI, and sign a contract to instruct for 800hrs (About 1 year), which you will probably need to do anyway, Flight Safety will pay for your CFII and MEI. No cost to you. Another HUGE advantage, since the instrument, commercial, and multi training is ALL done in a multi engine aircraft, most your time instructing will be multi time. It is not uncommon to see F.S. guys with 1000TT and like 500 multi!

No other flight academy even comes close to flight safety.

With that said, I think what Rickair recommended (going to a local FBO is the best option).y recommendation would be to do your licenses and ratings at an FBO. It will save you at least $20,000 for the same training. At academies, you will pay $55 an hour for instruction. At an FBO you will pay about $35 an hour for instruction. The flip side, when you want to instruct to timebuild, academies will only pay you $14 an hour. The FBO will pay you $25-35 an hour. BIG DIFFERENCE! At academies, you will pay like $105 for an old cessna, while at an FBO you will pay $80-90 for an old cessna. At academies you will pay over $200 an hour for a multi, while those cost about $150 at an FBO. As crazy as these prices are, the place where these academies make their money is ground school. If you take the hours of ground school divided by the total cost, it works out to like $20 an hour for a class of 10-20 people. That's too much! American Flyers charges $80 an hour for classroom instruction, and they are proud of it. That is more than classes cost at Stanford or Yale!!!

That is why I recommend an FBO over an airline academy. It is much cheaper, you will make more money, and the training can be accomplished in the SAME amount of time.

ATP, FSA or FBO?
 

ryane946:

Is it all relative though in terms of the # of students I would have to instruct at an FBO making that kind of money? Whereas, at an academy, I'm almost sure that a guaranteed base salary is offered with some perks? Or maybe even making $14-$15/hr with a prescribe number of trainees assigned to me?

What's your take on that? Just trying to weigh the pro and cons because I will be starting my flight training hopefully later this year. When I go to my financial resource, I'm sure these questions will come up again.

atp

You would have an advantage as a brand-new CFI getting a CFI job at the place you did your CFI training. This applies to any school. But CFI jobs aren't that hard to come by anyway.


1000/250 should get you an interview at any of a number of regionals regardless of where you went to school.

If the cost and convenience of FSA is comparable to your local flight school, then by all means do it! They have a good reputation. Same applies to ATP.

But if they want $60K+, my recomendation is to get it done locally...what you need to get a job are ratings and flight time, period. Get 'em as cheap as you can (unless you have a trust fund, then do whatever makes you happy).

The nature of civilian flight training is that there is no possible "value added" that is worth paying an ADDITIONAL $30-60K. A lot of people don't know any better, and a lot of people pay the money...the entire "glossy-brochure" flight academy industry is based on ignorant customers. Don't be one.

Well said rickair. That is the best way to put flight academies into words.

This can be somewhat true. I was kinda lucky. I found a great operation that allowed CFI's to work as independent contracters, which means $35 an hour for me. With this extra pay, I am able to offer discounts to my students (I always charge atleast 1/2 hour less than they would normally pay). That means the students want to work with me, and I routinely have a full student base. I am able to CFI as much as anyone at an airline academy.

You have a point. You will not be guarenteed students if you work at an FBO. But I have two things to say about that.

1. If you work hard enough, you can have enough students at an FBO. Offer them a good deal on flight instruction time. Your goal is not to earn as much as possible as a CFI, your goal is to get the most flight hours as quick as possible, then go to an airline and make money. If you spend your first month or two hanging out at the flight school and you talk to all the perspective students, they will want to have YOU as their instructor. Trust me, it works like 80% of the time.

2. One important thing to think about at a flight academy. EVERY student who gets their private/instrument/comm/multi WILL become a flight instructor. That means that flight academies often have LOTS of instructors. Think about that too.

atp is a crap school when regionals are sucking up pilots. your instructor will have just finished his checkride the day you show up.

ATP gets the job done and their students / CFIs don't ***** about them as much as some of the other schools out there. IN fact, most had a positive experience and were taken care of. Of course, you always have the victims in any career / school. You could get a newly minted CFI at any other school / FBO....


-LA

ATP, FSA or FBO?
 

Ok rickair7777, ryane946 and you too, LA:

So, just to make clear, I don't need to take an RJ course at one of these schools in order to be considered for employment with one of the "partners" as long as I meet the prescribed minimums, correct?

atp

P.S. - Workday over. Talk with you guys l8r. :D

That would depend on that schools policy,,,they may require the RJ to ensure they milk you for as much money as possible.

Flightsaftey is one of the most expensive flight schools out there if not the most expensive. I think they are. I would go with ATP. All multi-engine time and greatly maintained aircraft to fly. Plus ATP throughs in the high altitude endorsment in the Citation where you actually log in the flight time. I'm considering ATP, Ari-Ben Aviator, and National Pilot Academy

Check out www.prairieairservice.com

Great training at affordable prices. I did my training there mostly in the Apache and had about 60 multi when I finished.

FSA vs. ATP
 

Not trying to be a stick in mud, however, what's the use of going through the RJ course at the academy, only to go through the same cours as a NH? :confused:

The point is the school wants to milk you for all they can...my bet is no RJ course, no job interview or the like. Pretty shady and it should be illegal.

RJ Course
 

Ya, they do have agreements based upon completion of that course. I am trying to stay away from that course. I am trying to get on with an airline that ATP has no association with. I have a couple of friends at that airline who are trying to get me in with a little less than required. They already said that they are willing to lower the mins because of my 4 year degree and all of the multi time. At the completion of the 90 day program, I had 140 hours multi. Now I am up to 470 TT with 340 multi. There are guys who did the course and said that it didn't help them in the long run anyway, but there are others who said the total opposite. Either way, I won't attend unless I absolutely have to. But, ATP is a great place to build up your multi time, and it is a guarantee that you will have students.

Flight Safety vs. ATP
 

Gentlemen:

Now that's the information that I have been looking for :).

I know now where I'm headed. Given all of the information, brochures, and genuine heartfelt advice I have received since posting remarks on these threads...JAX, FL...here I come!!!;)

57,

your prior military experience is also going to be a big plus...

atpwannabe
 

I personally wouldn't recommed JAX, FL. It is just something about the vibe there. I felt like all of the instructors think that they are hard and cool because they are multi engine flight instructors. And they always quote TOP GUN lines, which is really not cool. Especially if you come from the Navy like me and know that they really don't do that stuff. Personally I would go to ATL. It is a booming location, they have alot of planes, it is a fun city, and the field they fly out of is tower controlled, and the runways just got resurfaced. The FBO that ATP is located in just got redone and pretty sweet also. You also get alot of good experience dealing with Atlanta Class B. But, you obviously have your own choice. I used to go to the Braves games when I wasn't flying and there is a brewery there called Sweet Water Brewery that does "tours" where you can hang out and have cold beer for $2 a piece. But anywhere you go, you will get good training from ATP.

ctd57
 

Thanks for the info ctd57.

The only reason I had picked J-ville is that, I'm from Florida,(born & raised in Palm Beach County... now living in Naples) and that my 23 month old son and his mother (ex-wife):o , live in Ft. Pierce. Going to Jacksonville would make things easier in terms of visitations and seeing my parents every so often; straight down I-95 South.

But, o--o-o-o-oh the women in ATL!!!:D

atpwannabe
 

There are other locations in FL just so you know, they are in Stuart(also a 90 day location), Fort Lauderdale(has very nice facilities), Orlando, and Lakeland.
Just to let you know in case you weren't aware of them.

Flight Safety vs. ATP
 

I was aware of the other locations in the state, particularly Stuart, FL. That's 30 min outside of Ft Pierce. If things work out between me and my ex (aka the...curmudgeon :D), that would be the ideal situation. I hadn't considered SFB or FXE. Given my current marital and financial status, relocating back to WPB (Mom & Dad's :o ) and attending the FXE location is probably my best bet.

Once I do start my training, I'll look you up!!

Hello I am new here. I have a few questions. I have a BSME/AE and I want to pursue a flight career. I talked to ATP and FSI. They both seem very attractive and priced within some decent range. The main thing is my Naturalization. I have not become a Citizen yet. ATP does not do accept non-citizens anymore. I want thinking about going to FSI and work for them for the 800 hours. I could also do it at the local airport and pay around 35K to 40K, but the problem is; borrowing the money from whom...? If any of you have some heads up let me know.


Alex

ATP in PHX is good. Just paid the money, got the training, left with my ticket. No BS or milking for more money. Glass training will come in your new hire class. Don't waist your money.

Alright, people. When it really comes down to it, it really does not matter where you learn to fly, only that you can and can fly well. I will say this and say only once, so listen up. AIRLINES DON'T GIVE A DARN WHERE YOU LEARN TO FLY. They only want you to be able to fly enough to 1) Meet the requirements set by their insurance carrier, 2) Be moldable (fly the way they want you to fly).

So if you really want to get it done and save money, find a reputable FBO, Flight School, or Joe CFI near you, and sit down and lay out a plan of action together. And Please do not fall into the same trap I did, it's what I call the "Almost Guarantee Trap." This is where the school either actually guarantees you a job or the wording falls just shy of a guarantee. As I found out there are no guarantees in aviation. Do your best and gave solid goals and you will get there with out wasting money.

Safe Flying everyone.

FSA vs. ATP
 

Alex:

I read where you said that Commencement Exercise is still about 8 months away. My advice to you would be to get a job as a mechanical or aeronautical engineer and save your money. I'm assuming that you have no loans to pay back. If this is so, make every effort to minimize your expenses for the next couple of years while you fly at a reputable local FBO.

The other route you could take is to postpone your flight training for a few years, save money and if you still have the overwhelming desire to pursue a career as a pilot, at least you will have the necessary capital to do so and go straight into one of the academies and come out debt free.

Blue skies.

atp

"And Please do not fall into the same trap I did, it's what I call the "Almost Guarantee Trap."

Tell us your story. This is how people learn.

James
 

I don't know what guarantee you are talking about, because ATP doesn't say that you are guaranteed a job anywhere. They only guarantee an interview if you meet the requirements put forth by the airline that they have an agreement with. I know plenty of people who have failed the interview process. And that is no ones fault but there own. Now, maybe other schools guarantee jobs, I am not sure

Try to get your " citizenship papers" in order as quickly as time will allow. Make sure you cross all of your t's and dot your i's.

Personally, I think ATP would be a better choice based upon the amount of ME time you will receive while training. Also, when doing your X-country training...it just that..flying across the country; you and another student. What better "CRM" exposure can you get? ATP really goes distance. That was one of the aspects of the training that sold me.

atp

FSI or ATP
 

[QUOTE=COTriple7]I'm an aspiring pilot on the verge of a very important as well as expensive decision. I have my decision narrowed down to two flight schools, flight safety and ATP. Both are fairly comparable in price and I've heard positive things about both schools. About me, I'm 24 and have relatively no flight time, aside from flying around in my buddy's piper several years ago. I've loved flying ever since I was little, and can think of no better job than an airline pilot. Time frame from start to finish is important, but so is the quality of instruction. I would really appreciate any info from anyone affiliated with these two schools.[/QUOT

My friend all the previous advises that everyone gave you are right on.
i think the question/s you have to ask your self and answer are
1. do I have the financial ability to afford a FSI or ATP programme..?
2.where do i get quality training..?

In these days when you go for an airline interview you will notice alot off guys with previous 121/135 training and some that they graduate from a flightschool such as FSi, ATP, Delta Academy, RAA etc...
Total time makes a difference but also you have to keep in mind that the transition to A glass cockpit airplane from the regular 6 pack it's a little hard.
If getting some advanced training in some kind of simulator, or enrolling in to Airline Pilot Programms, believe me it's to your advandage and airlines are looking into that...Is it worth it the money..? ABSOLUTELY
Τhe more you learn the better. there is also a preference to graduates from flightschools like flight safety or atp...the reason..? Quality of training.
Mind you alot of the training facilities that the airlines have are owned by FlightSafety. That should mean something ..don't you agree..?
I hope i help you a little bit..
Good luck on your Career

"If getting some advanced training in some kind of simulator, or enrolling in to Airline Pilot Programms, believe me it's to your advandage and airlines are looking into that...Is it worth it the money..? ABSOLUTELY"

I don't think so....

"there is also a preference to graduates from flightschools like flight safety or atp...the reason..? Quality of training"

Ah....not really.

Some schools have agreements with some regional airlines. It's a marketing tactic/ploy. If you go to one of these schools, you may have a shot at a job earlier, you may not. You'll pay a high price for the shot of an interview at lower time. There are other options that work just as well and cost less than the big academies and their direct track programs.

Not trying to start a fight, just telling it like I see it...

I agree.....but don't you think that you have more chances of getting a airline job through a school such as FSI or ATP etc.....! No you are not starting a fight ..I do respect your opinion. We are mature men not kids.
I do have friends that graduate from small FBO's and they fly for very respectfull airlines around the globe, so i do agree with you..What I just say it's that (to my opinion) you might have a better chance.

Flight Safety Academy
 

Putting all cost aside, what do you think of fsi in vero. Im headed down that way in september. I have been doing my research for a long time so I know the risk. I just want feedback about the school. I work for an airline now and I have a few people on the inside that can help me with a job. I just want to get the best training the quickest i can.