OscarOscar

Does anyone a have quick reference guide for the power settings and configuration for the Piper Arrow III (NA) for commercial maneuvers?

I did my commercial in the 172RG so I'm not familiar with the Arrow's power settings.



Thanks.





OO.

multipilot

I only have relatively few hours in a pa28R-201. I haven't made a quick reference sheet yet.

Chandelles - Full Prop and full power - accelerate to maneuvering speed and begin the climbing turn.

Lazy 8s - Low cruise - 2500 RPM and roughly 20 - 22"

8s on pylons - 2500 RPM and whatever manifold will hold Va

Steep Spirals - Full prop and power to idle, gear down, 85 kts. reference stall speed configuration chart - be careful to avoid continuous ops between 1500 and 1900 RPM below 15" of manifold (i think that's the range anyway, if it even applies to your airplane)

Power off 180s - Full prop, power to idle, 79 kts. and find the runway quick.

Steep Turns - Full prop, power for Va (somewhere in the range of 22-25 inches)

The easiest thing to do would be to fly the maneuvers and note the power settings you used. Hope this helps.

OscarOscar

Right on, THANKS!

That's a big help.

One other thing>

Lazy 8s: Gear up or down?



Thanks again.



OO.

Krafty1

Gear Up/Clean

floridaCFII

Most of those are spot on... I'll put my own suggestions below yours... the Arrow is one of those planes where there are usually a couple of ways to make it work out. Just try them and see what works for you.

I find that 20''/2300RPM usually holds Va pretty well.

Don't forget to clear your engine every 360 degrees of turn. If your Arrow is like the ones I've flown, you'll hear quite an impressive backfire =)

There's another method to this where you initially pitch for 90 instead of 79, and then either add flaps sooner (if you're good on the point), or use that extra speed and ground effect to "help" your point (if you're short).

Another trick you can use if you're about to come up short is the flaps. When they are in the full down position, there's still about a quarter inch of travel in the handle. If you're about to come up short, pull the handle back and hold it and you'll float just enough.

I'd also suggest picking a point other than the numbers/end of the runway. That way, if you're just practicing, you can still land even if you're going to be a bit short, rather than spending all your focus on trying not to end up in the grass. Of course, on your checkride, it's usually a one-shot deal.

I use 20''/2500RPM, normally works out pretty good. Bump the power up to about 22'' once you roll into the turn.

Also... don't forget that in the Arrow, you have no miror and no "window" check, so make sure you're extra vigilant about your GUMPS checks and gear light verification. The horn sounds below 14''MP, so try to keep your power above that when practicing maneuvers so you don't get used to hearing the horn and forget it.

Ewfflyer

If it's an older Arrow with the "Magic" hand, make sure it is disabled prior to doing any manuevers, especially the slower types where you hit the slower speed, the gear drops, and ya bust. I'd say it's a 50/50 shot whether or not someone updated the plane and completely disabled the system or not. It had the greatest intentions, but unfortunately caused more complecations!

The power settings look pretty good. While at college, we used 21"/2300RPM a lot for just dinking around and setting up things. Approaches were set up with 17-18". These were 2-bladed props, and PA28R-201's, not 200's(assuming yours is an Arrow II?) I've flown a few with the 3-bladed prop, and I felt that they didn't slow-down like the 2-blade's did when you did your power-off accuracy landing, for whatever reason they must be more efficient in the drag on the back-side of the power also!

Definately have fun with the Arrow, it's a great training platform for commercial and instrument students.

snippercr

Magic Hand? Is that something that automatically lowers your gear? I flew an older arrow. not sure if it had that, but if it did it probably was broken.

DC2495

The "magic hand" is the most obnoxious thing I've found training commercial students. The whole landing gear system is difficult in the old 200's. You can't do emergency extensions, unless you kill the master switch. When you want students to focus on making sure they get the gear down and locked during an engine failure you have to try and be sneaky by holding up the extender override. It's a frustrating beast, I hope for your sake you are in a 201, they had some time to work the bugs out of the systems!

All the numbers up above look about right, I wouldn't do steep turns with full prop though, stick with 2500rpm & around 20". Like they said, be careful about that center line check!

DC2495

Oh, and yes, the "magic hand" is an automatic gear extender that uses a pitot type sensor, when there isn't enough air pressure on the diaphram, the gear automatically drops. Power on is usually around 85mph & power off is around 105mph.

multipilot

The 201s are still a pain in the butt. There are a couple of things I would suggest Piper do differently.

For example, I was recently standardizing a new instructor on the (brand new) airplane. I was showing her the power off stall sequence and when I put the gear down we didn't get a nose gear light. I told her to fly the plane while I troubleshot. I recycled the landing gear and still no nose light. I then pushed the light in so it would spring back out so I could swap it with another light, but it got stuck inside the gear position light housing flush with the instrument panel. I took the two main gear lights out thinking I could pinch it and pull it out, but there are fine metal partitions between each light. I spent 15 minutes or so bending key rings and whatever else I could find to try and free the light. After a while of that I gave up and we flew back to the airport for a low approach to verify that the gear was down and came back in for one of the smoothest landings I've ever made.

As it turns out, the light was burned out and we also had to replace the housing for the gear position lights. The housing cost us around 900 bucks. I wish Piper would have used a gear position indicator similar to what our Seminole uses.

Another thing they should have done differently with the 201 is put the emergency gear extension lever on the instrument panel as they did with the Seminole. In the 201 it's on the floor and all it takes is for someone to step on that lever. Recently, about five minutes into a flight I began to smell something funny and then noticed our gear warning light flash. Not sure if it was me and my student or the guys that flew it before us, but someone had bumped that lever just enough. After we selected gear up, the gear would come up, then slowly ease its way down until the pump would kick back on, and bring it back up again. What we were smelling was the gear pump working overtime and overheating.