sargeanb

I'm a CFI here at ERAU, and I couldn't agree with you more on that subject. I was just up with an instrument student the other day, transitioning to a VOR approach, and the first thing he does is starts turning knobs on the GPS, wasting valuable time. Now the plan is to eventually convert the majority of our fleet to G1000 equipped aircraft, and I think this is not a good idea. Like you said, especially if students get into cargo flying at the next level, they will not see much glass at all. The GPS is usually the first thing we fail when testing out nav skills. Learning advanced avionics is useful, but primary training should definitely remain with the old style gauges.

Not to get off topic...here are some costs dug up from my old students. This is the standard rating progression here:
FA132 (initial to Solo XCs) $7000
FA133S (PVT ASEL completion) $5000
FA133M (PVT AMEL) $8500
FA232 (Inst Multi): $12000
FA272 (Comm AMEL):$6800
FA273 (optional C-ASEL): $3500
FA417 (optional CFI/II): $8000
CRJ Ground school/sim course (optional): $3500
Grand total: $54300, spread out over 3-4 years.

I don't know exactly what students are coming out with timewise, but I'm guessing around 200-250 total with 80-100 multi time, and 24 hrs in the CRJ sim if they opt to do that. These are the REAL numbers straight off my records....I even rounded up a bit since these were my sharper students.
Compare this to:
ATP Airline program: $53990
Regional Airline Academy: $60000
Local FBO: 39000 (no turbine training)
Other FBO: 37000 (no turbine training)

So what students get out of these programs is a bit different for each school, but the costs for the "airline prep" schools is about equal. Our flight costs are less than FBOs in the local area with comparable equipment, particularly multi-engine aircraft (most FBO multis around here are down for mtx 1/2 the time). Keep in mind too that we are a university, so Aero Sci students are getting alot of specific classroom training on alot of things they will see in the future outside of our flight department, but the costs for tuition, etc. are not included here.

There is alot of dislike towards us out there, but the current generation of CFI's and students, for the most part, are trying to dispell the "cocky" attitude alot of pilots think we have...and yes, I have 40G in loans to pay back too. However, the University is paying for my MBA now as an employee, which is a more useful degree should the pilot job market cease up once again. I had fun during my time as a student here, and still do...it is what you make of it.

cortezthekiller

I agree with everyone else except Uncle Bose above. Who is this guy Chucky Yeager?? Riddle is a descent education but highly overpriced! They are full of crap. Hit up a local college, and get something useful with aviation on the side.

LAfrequentflyer

I don't see the value of an aero science degree at all - except maybe to fill a square on an application. One can do that thru University of Phoenix or American Military University...

Everything you need to know to pass an interview / check-ride / oral you are going to learn in ground school (self study or organized) and FAA / approved / accepted literature.

-LAFF

rickair7777

And we have a save!

rickair7777

I agree that there are many good online programs, especially for post-graduate work. Most of these are from established universities.

For undergraduate work, I do feel that a lot of the value you get is the social interaction, not just keggers, but study and project groups. This is critical for kids just out of high school, less so for older established adults.

But remember, reality is in the eye of the beholder...the perception IS the reality, and most folks over 40 hold a VERY low opinion of online education due to the history of mail-order diploma mills. And these are the folks who are likely to do your interview at an airline...

Uncle Bose

Sounds like you agree with me after all, except for the "decent education" part. It's an embarrassingly simple 4-year exercise in reality avoidance. Why confine your education and academic experience to such a tiny realm?

ERAU1978grad

When you graduate from Riddle you basically jump off a high dive into a cesspool of sharks. You then have to swim to the other side. The cesspool is general aviation and the 'other side' is a logbook full of time, an ATP and many ratings. Making it across the cesspool does NOT guarantee a decent paying job. During the swim you will see friends get chewed up and killed. Friends will swim to the side and say 'f++k it, I'm done with this s++t'. Others will simply slip under the muck and get swallowed up. Statistically, half of your class will make it across and only 30% will end up flying heavies. You would think that with the reputation of the school, 100% would be airline employed.

Not.

Realistically, ERAU stuffs each Air Science class with warm bodies knowing that a big % will leave the profession. Why do they do this? It keeps the tuition reasonable. If they didn't, tuition would be a lot different and I am sure nobody could afford it except the Saudi Royals. Think about that for a sec..... half of the class will never succeed in aviation, but they are there so that the other half won't have to pay as much. It still sucks to be me.

LAfrequentflyer

Thanks for posting...My cesspool was the FBO experience learning / getting my PPL. I never plan on setting foot inside one (FBO) again for any training/rental flying.

My last CFI had been at it for 6 years and had just over 1,000 hours in his logbook, with the min ME time needed for his ratings. He gave up and is now a cop in CA. Another CFI there was going back into the marines as a pilot candidate. A third CFI - went into interstate trucking to pay off his flight training loans. The 4th CFI I knew there was waiting for a call from the local PD.

I shoud have listened to my father. He advised against FBOs and flying as a hobby. As far as he was concerned - let the military train you. If you have to do it - get the training at a fixed price , get the CFI days over with ASAP.


I'm going to read your post on a regular basis. I read the key-loans thread weekly...

Thanks again for posting.


-LAFF

ERAU1978grad

Military is great- especially cargo aircraft. You can slide right into an airline job with that. I know a few who have done it.

ERAU1978grad

An aero science degree is useless. It barely fills a line on an application. I realized that when I had flown 3 years as a CFI and had 1500+hours. Of course, I was better off than those pilots around me who had no degree, but when the market went flat and all airlines started to furlough instead of hire, I had absolutely no edu-mication to make a second income except to pump gas at the local FBO. That was it. I drove a tug from midnight to 8:00AM. WalMart didn't exist back then or I would have had a backup plan. I STRONGLY stress the importance of getting a degree outside of aviation. Unfortunately, sooooo many pilots I know are just like I was-- starry-eyed about winged thingies and don't want to pollute their resume with lines like BS Accounting or BS Management. Big mistake.