Embry Riddle: to go or not to go
06-13-2006, 04:41 AM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,242
Originally Posted by ksdc
Thanks to all for your responses!
It definitely helped me exchanging ideas with people who have been where I am. I guess sometimes we choose "not to see and not to hear" opinions that do not enforce the conclusion we would like to reach.
I wonder if it is possible to exchange off-line messages with individuals in the list. For example I would like to contact ERAU1978grad but I could not find ayny other link. Any help?
am a 1978 Air Science graduate from ERAU. I spent $32,000 back then and have no idea what the cost is now with fuel prices included. Reading the pots that say $37k per year just floors me. I feel for the fool who takes that bait.
When I graduated from the DAB campus I had a CFI, 350 hours and was literally THROWN TO THE WOLVES. I spent 5 years as a CFI and night freight pilot accumulating 2000 hours. I added an ATP in a Citation, and CFI-single land and sea, multi land and sea, glider. I had to pay for the Citation training out of pocket at $3500.
I applied to all of the airlines and they wouldn't even look at me. An Air Science degree from Riddle meant nothing then and it still means nothing. Unfortunately, all the propaganda on the web says otherwise.
Thw NUMBER ONE thing that you have to realize about aviation is that there are thousands of pilots out there who will do anything to fly, but there are only so many cockpit slots that can be filled. Your competition will fly for a lot less than you can survive on.
When I graduated from high school I made the decision to become an airline pilot. How naive I was! The truth is that you don't 'become' an airline pilot, instead you 'suffer incredibly for many years to maybe end up as one'. It was the worst decision I have ever made and was a financial catastrophe for me and my family. There is no guarantee you will ever make it and if you don't you will spend the rest of your life trying to pay of $thousands$ in school loans by flying airplanes in charter and corporate HELL for the rest of your life. You will not have a family life, you will live in a small house in a crappy neighborhood and you will own one little crappy car.
I did an informal survey a few years ago. I pulled out my old Riddle yearbook from 1978 and wrote down the names of the guys who graduated with me in Air Science. I then went to the FAA Airman Database and searched to see how many still had an active pilot's license. Of that entire class with high hopes for their future, only 25% were still flying. In other words 75% OF THE CLASS FOUND OUT LIKE ME THAT FLYING AIRPLANES IS A LOUSY WAY TO MAKE A LIVING. Out of the guys I graduated with, only 8% had advanced type ratings which indicated they were flying for the airlines. That means 92% of the class did not get anywhere near an airline cockpit. I have no idea what they are doing now, but they all left school with huge loans to pay off and no way to do it.
Proof that Riddle knows there is a problem here: it started the 'Zero-to-250 hours to an ASA co-pilot job program'. That program has now been discontinued. You are still thrown to the wolves.
I was VERY lucky do be able to take a 'do over' as kids say. I started in a new career. I eventually went back to school in 1984 and got a degree in Aerospace Engineering from the University of Tennessee, a regular university with an established reputation and a huge percentage of female students. Trust me, engineering pays a HECK of a lot more than piloting airplanes and it is truly a white collar job. You get and office with a desk and a constant salary with a guaranteed annual increase and a retirement account. You work indoors with smart people who own nice homes and have a family life.
The truth is that airline pilots are blue collar workers who are paid hourly wages and stand on picket lines when things get bad, just like a coal miner or factory worker for General Motors, or someone working in a sweatshop in Mexico. The majority of them do not have retirement accounts to look forward to supporting them when they retire. The sad fact is that they still will do anything to fly airplanes. What morons!!!
I STRONGLY suggest that you take your $50,000 and go to law school. Anyone with half a brain can get a law dergree and even if you screw your post-graduation career up andmake stupid choices, you still have a much better chance at being home with your family, eating a nice meal every night, living in a nice house in a normal neighborhood and owning two new cars.
It definitely helped me exchanging ideas with people who have been where I am. I guess sometimes we choose "not to see and not to hear" opinions that do not enforce the conclusion we would like to reach.
I wonder if it is possible to exchange off-line messages with individuals in the list. For example I would like to contact ERAU1978grad but I could not find ayny other link. Any help?
am a 1978 Air Science graduate from ERAU. I spent $32,000 back then and have no idea what the cost is now with fuel prices included. Reading the pots that say $37k per year just floors me. I feel for the fool who takes that bait.
When I graduated from the DAB campus I had a CFI, 350 hours and was literally THROWN TO THE WOLVES. I spent 5 years as a CFI and night freight pilot accumulating 2000 hours. I added an ATP in a Citation, and CFI-single land and sea, multi land and sea, glider. I had to pay for the Citation training out of pocket at $3500.
I applied to all of the airlines and they wouldn't even look at me. An Air Science degree from Riddle meant nothing then and it still means nothing. Unfortunately, all the propaganda on the web says otherwise.
Thw NUMBER ONE thing that you have to realize about aviation is that there are thousands of pilots out there who will do anything to fly, but there are only so many cockpit slots that can be filled. Your competition will fly for a lot less than you can survive on.
When I graduated from high school I made the decision to become an airline pilot. How naive I was! The truth is that you don't 'become' an airline pilot, instead you 'suffer incredibly for many years to maybe end up as one'. It was the worst decision I have ever made and was a financial catastrophe for me and my family. There is no guarantee you will ever make it and if you don't you will spend the rest of your life trying to pay of $thousands$ in school loans by flying airplanes in charter and corporate HELL for the rest of your life. You will not have a family life, you will live in a small house in a crappy neighborhood and you will own one little crappy car.
I did an informal survey a few years ago. I pulled out my old Riddle yearbook from 1978 and wrote down the names of the guys who graduated with me in Air Science. I then went to the FAA Airman Database and searched to see how many still had an active pilot's license. Of that entire class with high hopes for their future, only 25% were still flying. In other words 75% OF THE CLASS FOUND OUT LIKE ME THAT FLYING AIRPLANES IS A LOUSY WAY TO MAKE A LIVING. Out of the guys I graduated with, only 8% had advanced type ratings which indicated they were flying for the airlines. That means 92% of the class did not get anywhere near an airline cockpit. I have no idea what they are doing now, but they all left school with huge loans to pay off and no way to do it.
Proof that Riddle knows there is a problem here: it started the 'Zero-to-250 hours to an ASA co-pilot job program'. That program has now been discontinued. You are still thrown to the wolves.
I was VERY lucky do be able to take a 'do over' as kids say. I started in a new career. I eventually went back to school in 1984 and got a degree in Aerospace Engineering from the University of Tennessee, a regular university with an established reputation and a huge percentage of female students. Trust me, engineering pays a HECK of a lot more than piloting airplanes and it is truly a white collar job. You get and office with a desk and a constant salary with a guaranteed annual increase and a retirement account. You work indoors with smart people who own nice homes and have a family life.
The truth is that airline pilots are blue collar workers who are paid hourly wages and stand on picket lines when things get bad, just like a coal miner or factory worker for General Motors, or someone working in a sweatshop in Mexico. The majority of them do not have retirement accounts to look forward to supporting them when they retire. The sad fact is that they still will do anything to fly airplanes. What morons!!!
I STRONGLY suggest that you take your $50,000 and go to law school. Anyone with half a brain can get a law dergree and even if you screw your post-graduation career up andmake stupid choices, you still have a much better chance at being home with your family, eating a nice meal every night, living in a nice house in a normal neighborhood and owning two new cars.
Trust me, engineering pays a HECK of a lot more than piloting airplanes and it is truly a white collar job. You get and office with a desk and a constant salary with a guaranteed annual increase and a retirement account. You work indoors with smart people who own nice homes and have a family life.
You're right...My wife (BS/MS in Engineering - MIT class of 99) started her first job in 1999 making 98.5K base pay with 401K, profit sharing, full medical / dental, etc...
Today she makes over 145K base pay as a project manager. She expects to be a CTO in 3-5 years. The pay and benefits are amazing. They way she is treated at work is what keeps her in engineering.
06-13-2006, 05:17 AM
#42
Just Plane Stupid
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: Captain
Posts: 457
I know of a guy who's an engineer, but he's not making 6 fiquires...He doesn't even make 50% of my salery driving a plane...Maybe he's not a good engineer...?...I hope he is...He did the engineering on my house!...lol...It's like everything in the employment world...Some make the big bucks some make the little bucks while doing the same job...I have a friend who spent 3 years play'n in the minors baseball leage at $1800 a month...Over night he was called up to the big leage...And the next day he is making $58,000 a month...Doing the same job!...No reason why some make more than others...I've owned several companies and currently own two at this time...And I'll give you something I've learned...Marketing Companies do one thing really well...They market themselves!...That's why they cost so much to hire>>>Think about what I just wrote...And now apply it to aviation...Or have we?...But don't listen to me...remember I can't spell 'cause I didn't go to college...lol College will pave the road in front of you...But some pave their own roads...I forget who wrote that.
Last edited by HeavyDriver; 06-13-2006 at 05:19 AM.
08-07-2006, 08:51 AM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 170
I am a 2004 ERAU Grad, working as a CFI in ATL and got to reading this thread by mistake, but when I started reading MAN! It started to bother me how bad people are hating on ER. Yes the school is over priced! Yes I will definately spend many years paying those loans back but I will be D#mned if you it was not worth it. I had a great time during my 4 years and I met some great people. I know of many! MANY! pilots who are now working for the regionals that went to Riddle. They are enjoying working 16 days out of a month and yes they might not be making a lot right now but what other job out there allows you to work that little time and still have a great time flying and enjoying what you do. It boggles my mind when those who did not make it complain about the industry. IT HAS BEEN THIS WAY FOR A LONG TIME! The industry is the way it is because it prevents people who just want to get there the easy way! If you believe that going to Riddle is going to make you 100+ k after a couple of years then yes go to LAW school but if you are passionate about flying and do not mind working hard to achieve your goals then this is the industry you want to persuit. Those who are flying for airlines can testify that Riddle has made a big impact on aviation, they provide a very safe foundation and it shows when you are out there. I have flow with people who came from "MOM AND POP" flight school and you can tell the difference in training and that alone can make you or break you when you go for an interview with an airline. I guess just like everything else people are entitled to their own opinion but do realize that their is a good for every evil and an evil for every good. Riddle is not that BAD!! the marketability value that they are giving you will help you in the long run, you mark my words. Plus every one knows that in this industry is WHO YOU KNOW! that will get you that nice job. I just had to put a little perspective on Riddles's side so don't hate me and DON*T HATE RIDDLE!
08-07-2006, 09:01 AM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 2,575
Originally Posted by DON*T HATE ERAU
I have flow with people who came from "MOM AND POP" flight school and you can tell the difference in training and that alone can make you or break you when you go for an interview with an airline.
08-07-2006, 09:10 AM
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 2,575
Originally Posted by DON*T HATE ERAU
Those who are flying for airlines can testify that Riddle has made a big impact on aviation
Yea, airlines don't hire them and pilots don't like flying with them. When I was chief instructor for a 141 school, I hired a few ERAU guys. Good resumes! They were the last I hired. I've been flying for the airlines for the last 10+ years. ERAU guys are not the cream of the crop. I won't comment on their abilities as a group, that would be sterotyping. Some are good and some are not, but almost all of them have bad attitudes. The problem is they think they are good pilots and went to the greatest school. The reality is that they are not.
08-07-2006, 09:16 AM
#47
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,857
Originally Posted by Ottopilot
I went to a "mom & pop" flight school. I learned on a grass strip from an old WWII bomber pilot (30,000 hours total time). The airport had one little building, a hangar, and a three legged airport dog. He was the best instructor I ever had and I'm glad he was my first instructor. Great foundation. I just came in yesterday from Amsterdam on a 767-400. I do the trip again this Friday. Maybe you can ride along and see if I can fly or notice the difference between me and a ERAU grad. Can you guess why people don't like ERAU pilots? Attitudes.
(Autopilot, for those of you who missed it.)
08-07-2006, 11:21 AM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: UPS 757/767 Capt ONT
Posts: 4,357
"The industry is the way it is because it prevents people who just want to get there the easy way!"
Can you say that a different way?
"Those who are flying for airlines can testify that Riddle has made a big impact on aviation..."
I fly for the airlines and I have no idea what you're talking about.
"I have flow with people who came from "MOM AND POP" flight school and you can tell the difference in training and that alone can make you or break you when you go for an interview with an airline."
I have to and I couldn't disagree with you more.
Riddle is great for checking the "I have a degree" box on the job application. One is better off if they have interests outside of aviation and major in that. For others, an aviation degree is better than no degree at all. Riddle is okay for that though there are better alternatives, I think.
This thing about some Riddle guys having an attitude. It's true, I saw it when I was there. After all, you're fed "we are the best" and "it's worth the cost" all the time. Some are gonna buy off on it. I think the attitude fades pretty quick once exposed to the real world. Plus, not all Riddle guys are like that.
Anyhow, that's just my opinion. Riddle grad, 1982.
Can you say that a different way?
"Those who are flying for airlines can testify that Riddle has made a big impact on aviation..."
I fly for the airlines and I have no idea what you're talking about.
"I have flow with people who came from "MOM AND POP" flight school and you can tell the difference in training and that alone can make you or break you when you go for an interview with an airline."
I have to and I couldn't disagree with you more.
Riddle is great for checking the "I have a degree" box on the job application. One is better off if they have interests outside of aviation and major in that. For others, an aviation degree is better than no degree at all. Riddle is okay for that though there are better alternatives, I think.
This thing about some Riddle guys having an attitude. It's true, I saw it when I was there. After all, you're fed "we are the best" and "it's worth the cost" all the time. Some are gonna buy off on it. I think the attitude fades pretty quick once exposed to the real world. Plus, not all Riddle guys are like that.
Anyhow, that's just my opinion. Riddle grad, 1982.
Last edited by de727ups; 08-07-2006 at 11:24 AM.
08-07-2006, 11:42 AM
#49
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,210
Originally Posted by DON*T HATE ERAU
I am a 2004 ERAU Grad, working as a CFI in ATL and got to reading this thread by mistake, but when I started reading MAN! It started to bother me how bad people are hating on ER. Yes the school is over priced! Yes I will definately spend many years paying those loans back but I will be D#mned if you it was not worth it. I had a great time during my 4 years and I met some great people. I know of many! MANY! pilots who are now working for the regionals that went to Riddle. They are enjoying working 16 days out of a month and yes they might not be making a lot right now but what other job out there allows you to work that little time and still have a great time flying and enjoying what you do. It boggles my mind when those who did not make it complain about the industry. IT HAS BEEN THIS WAY FOR A LONG TIME! The industry is the way it is because it prevents people who just want to get there the easy way! If you believe that going to Riddle is going to make you 100+ k after a couple of years then yes go to LAW school but if you are passionate about flying and do not mind working hard to achieve your goals then this is the industry you want to persuit. Those who are flying for airlines can testify that Riddle has made a big impact on aviation, they provide a very safe foundation and it shows when you are out there. I have flow with people who came from "MOM AND POP" flight school and you can tell the difference in training and that alone can make you or break you when you go for an interview with an airline. I guess just like everything else people are entitled to their own opinion but do realize that their is a good for every evil and an evil for every good. Riddle is not that BAD!! the marketability value that they are giving you will help you in the long run, you mark my words. Plus every one knows that in this industry is WHO YOU KNOW! that will get you that nice job. I just had to put a little perspective on Riddles's side so don't hate me and DON*T HATE RIDDLE!
We don't hate riddle, we just kind of laugh at it (except the riddle grads, who are sick to their stomachs over their lifetime debt). When a job applicant has riddle on their resume, it's no different that State U, except that we are wary that they may have an attitude.
You don't have any idea of the realities. I'm sure Riddle filled your head with a bunch of bizarre ideas about "quality" training and "elite" students, but it's all just a load of BS. They told you whatever you wanted to hear, so they could GET YOUR MONEY! It would actually be funny if I didn't have some thirty-something friends who are STILL crushed by their riddle debt.
Since you're not an airline pilot, you shouldn't really speak about that, but if you read carefully you will find that all the "riddle supporters" on the internet forums are either current students or CFI's fresh from the Kool-Aid bowl. Experienced airline pilots who went to riddle just say that it cost far too much for what they got. You will understand this yourself in a big way in only a few years...the sooner you make that realization, the better for you (and anyone who has to fly with you).
You can't get out of debt now, but at least try to adopt a humble attitude, it well help you out down the road.
08-08-2006, 07:57 AM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 170
Well It is really disappointing to see how easy it is to get things out of content. I guess just because I was trying to defend my school, the school that I am proud to be a graduate from, makes me a person with an attitude. Whatever happened to camaraderie? Yes, I might have offended some about the "MOM AND POP" comment but I think OTTOPILOT got lucky to fly with someone that is as experienced as his intructor. Some don't get that lucky. So OTTO, I guess you have flown with every single pilot that has graduated from Riddle to say that "Yea, airlines don't hire them and pilots don't like flying with them". That is a pretty big generalization on the few experiences that you may have encountered. Look, I know everyone that has had a bad experience with Riddle is itching to speak their mind but I did not want to start a reply war. All I intended to say was that Riddle is not the Monster that people are making it to be. If it was then why do you think their enrollment is up every year and more and more of their graduates are getting jobs. All in all the university is a great place from my personal experience and I feel sorry for those who did not enjoy it or hold a grudge.
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