de727ups

"Every log book that I've ever used or seen had a column for "Actual Instrument," "Simulated Instrument," and "Flight Simulator."

Yeah, and logging ground trainer time as both simulated instrument and flight sim gives me the heeby jeebies. I'm not sure why but it must be an old skool thing.

I've just always felt "ground trainer" should be seperate. And that the actual and simulated columns refered to instrument time "in flight".

Bowersbum

cheers to that......And doing it that way makes filling out an 8710 easy.

flyandive

I have heard of airlines (SkyWest?) requiring applicants to break down their simulated instrument time into flight simulator and hood time.

multipilot

FTD time should only go in the simulator/ftd column if you had an instructor present and the ftd is approved. There's really no point in logging ftd time unless you are using it to meet the requirements of a certificate or to maintain proficiency IMHO.

FTD time should NOT be logged as dual, total, or simulated instrument (hood). FTD time is just that, FTD.

inky13

As a student, I logged instrument time I did in the FTD under "Simulated Instrument" column, but noted that (and kept a seperate total) for simulated instrument in FTD. When it comes to the 8710, It'll ask for instruction received in an FTD and "instrument" time in an FTD. (As well as a simulator and PCATD, all seperately.)

Therefore, as long as you can distinguish in some way that the instrument time was conducted in an FTD, I believe you'll be ok.

Also, FTD time should not be logged as total duration of flight.

Another touchy subject was whether or not to log dual with an FTD session with your instructor. Eventually, I stopped logging dual in FTD and corrected my logbook to reflect the same when one of my instrument instructors suggested that the dual received is for a flight in an airplane only and since I'm logging FTD time, it is already distinguished that I am getting Dual.

One other note: When I was getting my CFI-I at (at the time) a Part 142 school, there were two activities where I had to solo in a Level 3 FTD, practicing approaches, holds, etc. But since I was solo, the instrument time in the FTD didn't count towards my total instrument time, thus the approaches weren't legally allowed to be logged, as per 61.51(g). I guess it was solely for the practice of the procedures? IDK, but I logged it under FTD/Ground Trainer without Sim. Instrument time. And then that really threw me for a loop with dual received in a FTD, as I said before.

de727ups

HAHA...

There's another case of me being old skool, I guess. But I see no problem with logging "dual recieved", or training time, in the FTD. If an instructor is working with you and signing your logbook, I don't see any difference between you doing that in an airplane and doing that in a sim.

Bowersbum

Do you have a reference to back up what you say/believe? I believe that it is dual. If i am teaching a person something in a FTD, then they are recieveing dual from me. Now lets say i am in a situation where i am bored at work one day and want to go practice some approaches by myself in the sim....I would log that only as "sim/ftd" because there is no "authorized instructor." Now, that senario would mean that i couldn't use that time to count towards the instrument requirements towards a rating/certificate and its pretty much useless, but thats how i would do it.

I do agree that its not total, but does 61.51(g)(4) change your mind at all as far as logging it as "Instrument time" if an "authorized instructor" is present?

de727ups

"Now lets say i am in a situation where i am bored at work one day and want to go practice some approaches by myself in the sim....I would log that only as "sim/ftd" because there is no "authorized instructor."

Ummm....could you even log that? I thought all loggable FTD time had to be with an instructor?

Bowersbum

I'm not really sure...thats why i said its pretty much useless. But we get alot of "what if" people on here so i figured iw ould throw them a bone. By the time most folks can be "bored at work" and just goof around in the sim they really don't need to be logging FTD anymore.

multipilot

Here's my interpretation of these Part 1 and 61 definitions regarding the original question :

Pretty straight forward

FTD does not meet this definition of flight time therefore it doesn't count towards total flight time.

FTD is not an aircraft therefore does not go in the actual or simulated instrument columns

After reading this, I stand corrected. This makes it sound like you can log it as dual time. I've had DEs though say to keep FTD out of the dual column though. The only logic I have that supports this, is it still doesn't meet the definition of flight time. If you want your dual and pic columns to equal total time, then don't log ftd time as dual since ftd doesn't count for total. But then again you can legally log dual + PIC at the same time too. Your times just won't add up. May be legal, but not practical unless you absolutely need it to meet training time requirements.

Just backs up the point that you can use FTD time towards the total time requirements for a certificate or rating. Refer to the appropriate subpart for that certificate. Scroll back up to get the definition of "pilot time"